8 ms·

US Olympic athlete files leaked in alleged WADA hack

47 points by Udik 10y ago

alexro 10y ago
Anyone surprised that americans were given preferences?
- nkassis 10y ago
  Not sure where you see that anywhere in the article. TUEs are a normal thing that athletes from every country receive for taking various medicines deemed medically needed. Are they possibly abused sure but so far according to the article nothing out of the ordinary in the leak.
  - alexro 10y ago
    I'm not qualified in this, was told by a guy who is that the abuse is against WADA rules but wasn't prosecuted. For now I don't now, let's wait the wider discussion
nerdponx 10y ago
Since when is prednisone a performance enhancing drug? Should aspirin also be characterized as performance enhancing? What about alcohol (relaxes muscles and has psychoactive stress-reducing properties)? What about nutritious food?
- alexro 10y ago
  But meldonium is exactly what you describe, it was in use since 80ties.
- blang 10y ago
  Alcohol is illegal during competition and the first doping suspension was for sneaking brandy during the 1904 marathon
- Torai 10y ago
  > Since when is prednisone a performance enhancing drug? Don't you know what corticosteroids do? Really? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17805102 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17805102 "CONCLUSION: From these data, short-term Pred intake did seem to significantly improve performance during submaximal exercise, with concomitant alterations in hormonal and metabolic responses. Further studies will be necessary to elucidate the mechanisms of these hormonal and metabolic changes, and to determine whether the changes may be associated with the marked performance improvement obtained."
- cafard 10y ago
  Prednisone does stimulate the adrenal gland, which is why they have you taper off it. I don't know what sort of effect it might have on performance. (I have taken it to clear up bad rashes, with edema, from poison ivy.)
addicted 10y ago
TUEs are pretty common in athletics. You cannot exclude athletes from medication, when they are probably the ones who need them the most. TUEs are a way to regulate that to ensure they aren't abused for competitive gain.
- Someone1234 10y ago
  Absolutely. I think this is one of those "devil's in the details" things. In order to understand the significance of the US's TUEs we need context, and that context is what other countries are allowing, how commonly it occurs, and exactly what the process of getting a TUE is (e.g. is it rubber stamped, or a legit medical need). For example, if we found out that the US has 50% more TUEs per athlete competing than the next highest country, that's a legitimate story. But if it turns out that the US has similar numbers to other countries (again, normalised per athlete numbers), then it is a non-story for the most part (except the hack itself). Time will tell.
  - ivan_gammel 10y ago
    I'd say this is legitimate story because of lack of transparency. If it requires a hacker group to get this data, if it's not clear immediately, was it the due procedure to get a TUE and how often this happened, this can point either to mismanagement of WADA or corruption in higher ranks.
    - nkassis 10y ago
      To be fair this is sensitive information relating to individual peoples health. WADA should have been protecting this information to the same level as healthcare providers have to.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
  How exactly are athletes "the ones who need them the most".
  - ptaipale 10y ago
turingbombe 10y ago
Quickly browsing, methylphenidate is a key component of Ritalin. Are athletes unable to take medication such as Ritalin if they need it for a legitimate medical issue? I can see this kind of thing being abused with the "right" doctor etc, but as far as the rules go, is this illegal?
- Udik 10y ago
  Does the use of methylphenidate help otherwise unfocused and easily discouraged people to put more effort and concentration in their training? Because if this is the case, I don't see how this could be allowed- after all the rhetoric around sports is about the reward of effort and focus on the long term goal. But if this focus is gained through the use of a drug, then, uhm...
  - alexeldeib 10y ago
    Athletes are people too. If you would normally treat an issue with medication if the individual were not an athlete, why should they be barred from competing if a doctor deems using the medication appropriate? Rather than thinking of it as an unfair advantage, I would say it removes an obstacle which is disadvantageous for the person relative to their competitors (that is, it levels the playing field, in an ideal world).
    - Udik 10y ago
      You'd have to prove that the use of the medication brings them to a simply average level of performance in the specific domain, e.g. focus, or resistance to strain. (Which is in itself a contradiction, since by definition from an athlete you ask a performance which is well above average). Anything more than that would be an unfair advantage. Very hard to prove. On the other hand, being a professional athlete is not a basic right. Some people are simply not able to do it and I don't see the issue in that. Want a decent life? Take ritalin, but then don't ask to compete at the Olympic games. Edit: I said average. That's wrong. It should bring them to the low end of the non-pathological performance spectrum.
sschueller 10y ago
Doping is everywhere and eventually it will be impossible to tell if your values are genetic or from doping. I think we are very close to that point. Where do we draw the line? Maybe sports as a competitive event will change in to more of a entertainment event and who wins will no longer matter.
iamben 10y ago
I'd be kind of interested in seeing a competition where doping was allowed. How far/fast can the human body go with help from science?!
- calbear81 10y ago
  I have the same idea, how are we going to push the human race to new limits without some pioneers who are willing to exceed our mortal boundaries with the help of science.
- mark242 10y ago
  Read up on Todd Marinovich before you ask that question.
  - wyager 10y ago
    Sounds like that guy had a serious recreational drug addiction. How is that relevant to performance-related doping?
- Balgair 10y ago
  We will soon begin to find out!: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26766095 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26766095
- aaronjorbin 10y ago
  This was tried in 1988 - http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/update-all-drug-olympics/n9691 http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/update-all-drug...
sandworm101 10y ago
This brings up the larger question of what is and isn't considered 'normal' health. Professional athletes do have higher rates of disease. With strain and injury come health consequences. But there can be advantages. I'm interested in whether any of the male athletes suffer from "low testosterone", a very shady diagnosis. In short: if you don't have the testosterone of a 18yo football star, you are "low". That diagnosis allows docs to prescribe testosterone sups/patches/gels to the 50+yo men I see at the gym. The drug industry loves it. But athletes could use that diagnosis to gain legitimate access to performance enhancers. Some drugs meant to promote healing of injuries are also, imho, performance enhancing if they allow an athlete to continue training where a 'normal' person would be sidelined with a minor muscle or tendon strain. Similarly, pain killers are near-universal amongst athletes and aren't considered performance enhancing. I'm going for a run this afternoon. A mild painkiller would certainly allow me to run faster/longer, and would probably get me out on days that I am sore and really don't want to run. Perhaps this database may shed light on the use of painkillers as training aids.
supergirl 10y ago
I'm surprised there is this exception mechanism and nobody brought it up before. if anything, this leak shows that the list of exceptions should be public. I assume it isn't already. For example, I would be interested to see how many exceptions an X time tennis champion has obtained, as I'm sure his competitors would also like to know. in any case, this exception mechanism is a slippery slope. is it fair to healthy athletes? could the advantage of these banned substances be so big that it could motivate healthy athletes to get sick intentionally? I don't have any hope that wada will improve after this since now it is so easy for them to just say russia did this because they hate us. they also did not improve much after the russian doping scandal, which was only possible because the whole doping test system is flawed.
- bps4484 10y ago
  The problem with making the exceptions public is you're then making athlete's medical records public. There is a slippery slope here as well that as drugs continue to get added to the list of banned substances, an athlete has to report almost any ailment and it's remedy. There should be audits of these exceptions and how they're granted, but I don't think it should be public.
  - parennoob 10y ago
    You don't need to make the ailment public. Simply the exception that was granted. If it's okay to to report when athletes are banned from a sport due to substance X in their blood/urine (e.g. sooo many cyclists and EPO), surely it should be okay to report that "substance X will be found, but this time they are being given an exception".
    - dogma1138 10y ago
      That's the same thing it's like reporting some one is taking a cocktail of anti virals instead of saying they got AIDS. Steroids and other banned substances are constantly perscribed for medical issues and if an athlete takes a steroid cream for something that would appear on the exception list.
carnegie 10y ago
Let's not kid ourself that doping isn't rampant in professional sports.

47 points by Udik 10y ago

alexro 10y ago

Anyone surprised that americans were given preferences?

nkassis 10y ago
Not sure where you see that anywhere in the article. TUEs are a normal thing that athletes from every country receive for taking various medicines deemed medically needed. Are they possibly abused sure but so far according to the article nothing out of the ordinary in the leak.
- alexro 10y ago
  I'm not qualified in this, was told by a guy who is that the abuse is against WADA rules but wasn't prosecuted. For now I don't now, let's wait the wider discussion

nerdponx 10y ago

Since when is prednisone a performance enhancing drug? Should aspirin also be characterized as performance enhancing? What about alcohol (relaxes muscles and has psychoactive stress-reducing properties)? What about nutritious food?

alexro 10y ago
But meldonium is exactly what you describe, it was in use since 80ties.
blang 10y ago
Alcohol is illegal during competition and the first doping suspension was for sneaking brandy during the 1904 marathon
Torai 10y ago
> Since when is prednisone a performance enhancing drug? Don't you know what corticosteroids do? Really? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17805102 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17805102 "CONCLUSION: From these data, short-term Pred intake did seem to significantly improve performance during submaximal exercise, with concomitant alterations in hormonal and metabolic responses. Further studies will be necessary to elucidate the mechanisms of these hormonal and metabolic changes, and to determine whether the changes may be associated with the marked performance improvement obtained."
cafard 10y ago
Prednisone does stimulate the adrenal gland, which is why they have you taper off it. I don't know what sort of effect it might have on performance. (I have taken it to clear up bad rashes, with edema, from poison ivy.)

addicted 10y ago

TUEs are pretty common in athletics. You cannot exclude athletes from medication, when they are probably the ones who need them the most. TUEs are a way to regulate that to ensure they aren't abused for competitive gain.

Someone1234 10y ago
Absolutely. I think this is one of those "devil's in the details" things. In order to understand the significance of the US's TUEs we need context, and that context is what other countries are allowing, how commonly it occurs, and exactly what the process of getting a TUE is (e.g. is it rubber stamped, or a legit medical need). For example, if we found out that the US has 50% more TUEs per athlete competing than the next highest country, that's a legitimate story. But if it turns out that the US has similar numbers to other countries (again, normalised per athlete numbers), then it is a non-story for the most part (except the hack itself). Time will tell.
- ivan_gammel 10y ago
  I'd say this is legitimate story because of lack of transparency. If it requires a hacker group to get this data, if it's not clear immediately, was it the due procedure to get a TUE and how often this happened, this can point either to mismanagement of WADA or corruption in higher ranks.
  - nkassis 10y ago
    To be fair this is sensitive information relating to individual peoples health. WADA should have been protecting this information to the same level as healthcare providers have to.
GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
How exactly are athletes "the ones who need them the most".
- ptaipale 10y ago

turingbombe 10y ago

Quickly browsing, methylphenidate is a key component of Ritalin. Are athletes unable to take medication such as Ritalin if they need it for a legitimate medical issue? I can see this kind of thing being abused with the "right" doctor etc, but as far as the rules go, is this illegal?

Udik 10y ago
Does the use of methylphenidate help otherwise unfocused and easily discouraged people to put more effort and concentration in their training? Because if this is the case, I don't see how this could be allowed- after all the rhetoric around sports is about the reward of effort and focus on the long term goal. But if this focus is gained through the use of a drug, then, uhm...
- alexeldeib 10y ago
  Athletes are people too. If you would normally treat an issue with medication if the individual were not an athlete, why should they be barred from competing if a doctor deems using the medication appropriate? Rather than thinking of it as an unfair advantage, I would say it removes an obstacle which is disadvantageous for the person relative to their competitors (that is, it levels the playing field, in an ideal world).
  - Udik 10y ago
    You'd have to prove that the use of the medication brings them to a simply average level of performance in the specific domain, e.g. focus, or resistance to strain. (Which is in itself a contradiction, since by definition from an athlete you ask a performance which is well above average). Anything more than that would be an unfair advantage. Very hard to prove. On the other hand, being a professional athlete is not a basic right. Some people are simply not able to do it and I don't see the issue in that. Want a decent life? Take ritalin, but then don't ask to compete at the Olympic games. Edit: I said average. That's wrong. It should bring them to the low end of the non-pathological performance spectrum.

sschueller 10y ago

Doping is everywhere and eventually it will be impossible to tell if your values are genetic or from doping. I think we are very close to that point. Where do we draw the line? Maybe sports as a competitive event will change in to more of a entertainment event and who wins will no longer matter.

iamben 10y ago

I'd be kind of interested in seeing a competition where doping was allowed. How far/fast can the human body go with help from science?!

calbear81 10y ago
I have the same idea, how are we going to push the human race to new limits without some pioneers who are willing to exceed our mortal boundaries with the help of science.
mark242 10y ago
Read up on Todd Marinovich before you ask that question.
- wyager 10y ago
  Sounds like that guy had a serious recreational drug addiction. How is that relevant to performance-related doping?
Balgair 10y ago
We will soon begin to find out!: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26766095 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26766095
aaronjorbin 10y ago
This was tried in 1988 - http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/update-all-drug-olympics/n9691 http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/update-all-drug...

sandworm101 10y ago

This brings up the larger question of what is and isn't considered 'normal' health. Professional athletes do have higher rates of disease. With strain and injury come health consequences. But there can be advantages. I'm interested in whether any of the male athletes suffer from "low testosterone", a very shady diagnosis. In short: if you don't have the testosterone of a 18yo football star, you are "low". That diagnosis allows docs to prescribe testosterone sups/patches/gels to the 50+yo men I see at the gym. The drug industry loves it. But athletes could use that diagnosis to gain legitimate access to performance enhancers. Some drugs meant to promote healing of injuries are also, imho, performance enhancing if they allow an athlete to continue training where a 'normal' person would be sidelined with a minor muscle or tendon strain. Similarly, pain killers are near-universal amongst athletes and aren't considered performance enhancing. I'm going for a run this afternoon. A mild painkiller would certainly allow me to run faster/longer, and would probably get me out on days that I am sore and really don't want to run. Perhaps this database may shed light on the use of painkillers as training aids.

supergirl 10y ago

I'm surprised there is this exception mechanism and nobody brought it up before. if anything, this leak shows that the list of exceptions should be public. I assume it isn't already. For example, I would be interested to see how many exceptions an X time tennis champion has obtained, as I'm sure his competitors would also like to know. in any case, this exception mechanism is a slippery slope. is it fair to healthy athletes? could the advantage of these banned substances be so big that it could motivate healthy athletes to get sick intentionally? I don't have any hope that wada will improve after this since now it is so easy for them to just say russia did this because they hate us. they also did not improve much after the russian doping scandal, which was only possible because the whole doping test system is flawed.

bps4484 10y ago
The problem with making the exceptions public is you're then making athlete's medical records public. There is a slippery slope here as well that as drugs continue to get added to the list of banned substances, an athlete has to report almost any ailment and it's remedy. There should be audits of these exceptions and how they're granted, but I don't think it should be public.
- parennoob 10y ago
  You don't need to make the ailment public. Simply the exception that was granted. If it's okay to to report when athletes are banned from a sport due to substance X in their blood/urine (e.g. sooo many cyclists and EPO), surely it should be okay to report that "substance X will be found, but this time they are being given an exception".
  - dogma1138 10y ago
    That's the same thing it's like reporting some one is taking a cocktail of anti virals instead of saying they got AIDS. Steroids and other banned substances are constantly perscribed for medical issues and if an athlete takes a steroid cream for something that would appear on the exception list.

carnegie 10y ago

Let's not kid ourself that doping isn't rampant in professional sports.