4 ms·

It's been around for a while already. The dictation feature in OS X 10.10 already knows that trick. The thought of the little thinks is what still makes me stic

by n1000 10y ago

It's been around for a while already. The dictation feature in OS X 10.10 already knows that trick. The thought of the little thinks is what still makes me stick with OS X.

hashkb 10y ago
> The thought of the little [things] is what still makes me stick with OS X. This rubs me the wrong way because it's a vicious (positive, I guess) cycle. You keep buying iPhones, they stockpile billions in cash, and they can "think of the little things" (which is really just "How can we make OS X more like iOS and less suitable for power users?"). It's sad... but I can't imagine anyone taking the time to hack this together on their *nix laptop, and even if they did, it's not likely to be portable until a handful of other tinkerers donate their time. This will bring the downvotes, but the way we're stuck on Apple these days is far worse than the MS lock-in we revolted about in the 90s.
- throwanem 10y ago
  Can it really be called "lock-in" when it's an effect of changes which to many people make the product more desirable for its own sake? Microsoft in the 90s wasn't really known for such behavior, to say the very least.
  - AstralStorm 10y ago
    The alternate, Aldous Huxley version of lock-in, instead of the George Orwell version of lock-in.
    - throwanem 10y ago
      Do you think it's possible that such comparisons grow dull with overuse?
- tedunangst 10y ago
  How dare a company make a product people like!
- matt4077 10y ago
  I don't think it's about the money, it's more of a matter of capability and simply "caring". Regarding the latter: it seems that Apple has managed to build an organization where everyone knows that details matter and everyone identifies with their work. Here's a wonderful example: two SMS, one from google and one from Deutsche Bank (who, at the time, probably had enough money to care about details) https://twitter.com/salzprojekt/status/707303168703602688 https://twitter.com/salzprojekt/status/707303168703602688 Both SMS have the same purpose: sending me a single-use login token. But only google thought enough about it to change the sentence structure so as to make the code visible without unlocking the phone.
  - networked 10y ago
    Google's is a more convenient general-case solution, but Deutsche Bank may actually want to trick the user into reading the sum and the purpose of the transaction before he or she gets to the code. It could prevent a race condition type of attack if the user's PC is compromised.
  - hirsin 10y ago
    Is the point of 2FA to show you have possession of another device, or access to another device? While I'm in the same boat and appreciate seeing the code above the fold, for really secure things I'd prefer the Deutsche Bank example.
    - justinhj 10y ago
      They leave that choice to the user since you can disable the content of sms appearing on the lock screen. Not that I think that it's a good idea to leave security decisions like that to users
    - calbear81 10y ago
      I noticed that since I have iMessage synced to my Macbook, if I ever lost my laptop and someone tried to hack my accounts, they would get the 2FA access code on the laptop they stole.
- tedmiston 10y ago
  I don't think of it like that on OS X (err macOS), but rather, they're making the most poweruser features non-defaults. All of the friendlier features can be disabled though; I can't think of any functionality that's been totally removed.
- tammer 10y ago
  I used to think this way. I remember writing an angry rant comment on a review of the Magic Trackpad, saying it was the beginning of the end for precise, professional input. Now, of course, I exclusively use the MT with my Macs & plan on moving to iPad Pro. I've realized that what actually makes someone more efficient and productive are not the tools that seem the most complex or offer the most options. What I've realized is that the biggest impediment to productive general computing is what I'm going to coin as "context exhaustion." iOS is an OS designed to be orders of magnitude better in this category than a PC OS. A roll-your-own, completely open Linux distro is the opposite. At the end of the day, the tool that requires the least maintenance and repetition of movements is the tool that actually offers the most real productivity advancement. To use my example, once I realized giving up precise input was completely negated by the freedom of zoom gestures, I realized the great economic benefit of the MT. I'm critically faster at navigating interfaces with gestures like double-tap-to-zoom. The best part is, Apple isn't trying to achieve market dominance the way MS did. They're simply offering high end products in high demand - and if they don't match your vision of what productive work should look like, you'll always have other options that will be much more popular in terms of market share. A lot of focused complaints like these, I think, are the result of Apple fans not taking advantage of new features that reduce contexts.
  - joshmanders 10y ago
    Well put. Exactly how I feel. So many people are like "Yeah, enjoy your non-customizable iPhone." or other similar stuff about OS X/macOS but those are the beauties to me. The reasons I enjoy it so much. I don't want to spend 45 minutes customizing my devices. I just want to use them. I don't even care about the wallpaper on my machine anymore. I have an app installed that randomly updates the wallpaper using unsplash.com photos just incase there's that off chance that I see my desktop. Some people like to be productive, others like to control every aspect of their devices. It's okay. Choose based on your needs.
- n1000 10y ago
  I can't say I haven't tried. Every 12 months or so I install Linux and so far always came back. I bought a Surface Pro 4 because it seemed so Appleish, only I hardly ever use it. Windows 10 seems like the worst of both worlds. I spent hours on hacking simple configurations (as in *nix) and feel under heavier surveillance than on OS X.
- ninedays 10y ago
  The problem with this reasoning is that you assumed that Apple always had lots of money and that Apple always stockpile billions of cash but that is completely untrue. Back when Apple was months away from bankruptcy, Apple still had this dedication to details that we still find amazing today. I am amazed by how quickly people forgot in what position Apple was more than a decade ago. Apple caring about their products has nothing to with money. It just shows that they really care.
  - 505 10y ago
    "caring about their products has nothing to with money. It just shows that they really care." I almost completely agree. But IMHO "really care" includes Apple organising its business so that really caring ends up making them money, without its being zero-sum.
- behnamoh 10y ago
  You have to understand, Apple's strategy is and has always been to make extraordinary products without shouting about it. Sure, they do advertise and run conferences, but they never bold these little details. This explains why caring about products is something all Apple employees do without thinking about monetizing it. It's true what they say: Steve Jobs' DNA still runs through Apple. Microsoft also has billions of cash, but never have they done such a thing. They even had more time and money than Apple in the 90s.
moepstar 10y ago
Should be in there since 10.9.x, albeit in the form of the dictation feature, not Siri...

by n1000 10y ago

It's been around for a while already. The dictation feature in OS X 10.10 already knows that trick. The thought of the little thinks is what still makes me stick with OS X.

hashkb 10y ago

> The thought of the little [things] is what still makes me stick with OS X. This rubs me the wrong way because it's a vicious (positive, I guess) cycle. You keep buying iPhones, they stockpile billions in cash, and they can "think of the little things" (which is really just "How can we make OS X more like iOS and less suitable for power users?"). It's sad... but I can't imagine anyone taking the time to hack this together on their *nix laptop, and even if they did, it's not likely to be portable until a handful of other tinkerers donate their time. This will bring the downvotes, but the way we're stuck on Apple these days is far worse than the MS lock-in we revolted about in the 90s.

throwanem 10y ago
Can it really be called "lock-in" when it's an effect of changes which to many people make the product more desirable for its own sake? Microsoft in the 90s wasn't really known for such behavior, to say the very least.
- AstralStorm 10y ago
  The alternate, Aldous Huxley version of lock-in, instead of the George Orwell version of lock-in.
  - throwanem 10y ago
    Do you think it's possible that such comparisons grow dull with overuse?
tedunangst 10y ago
How dare a company make a product people like!
matt4077 10y ago
I don't think it's about the money, it's more of a matter of capability and simply "caring". Regarding the latter: it seems that Apple has managed to build an organization where everyone knows that details matter and everyone identifies with their work. Here's a wonderful example: two SMS, one from google and one from Deutsche Bank (who, at the time, probably had enough money to care about details) https://twitter.com/salzprojekt/status/707303168703602688 https://twitter.com/salzprojekt/status/707303168703602688 Both SMS have the same purpose: sending me a single-use login token. But only google thought enough about it to change the sentence structure so as to make the code visible without unlocking the phone.
- networked 10y ago
  Google's is a more convenient general-case solution, but Deutsche Bank may actually want to trick the user into reading the sum and the purpose of the transaction before he or she gets to the code. It could prevent a race condition type of attack if the user's PC is compromised.
- hirsin 10y ago
  Is the point of 2FA to show you have possession of another device, or access to another device? While I'm in the same boat and appreciate seeing the code above the fold, for really secure things I'd prefer the Deutsche Bank example.
  - justinhj 10y ago
    They leave that choice to the user since you can disable the content of sms appearing on the lock screen. Not that I think that it's a good idea to leave security decisions like that to users
  - calbear81 10y ago
    I noticed that since I have iMessage synced to my Macbook, if I ever lost my laptop and someone tried to hack my accounts, they would get the 2FA access code on the laptop they stole.
tedmiston 10y ago
I don't think of it like that on OS X (err macOS), but rather, they're making the most poweruser features non-defaults. All of the friendlier features can be disabled though; I can't think of any functionality that's been totally removed.
tammer 10y ago
I used to think this way. I remember writing an angry rant comment on a review of the Magic Trackpad, saying it was the beginning of the end for precise, professional input. Now, of course, I exclusively use the MT with my Macs & plan on moving to iPad Pro. I've realized that what actually makes someone more efficient and productive are not the tools that seem the most complex or offer the most options. What I've realized is that the biggest impediment to productive general computing is what I'm going to coin as "context exhaustion." iOS is an OS designed to be orders of magnitude better in this category than a PC OS. A roll-your-own, completely open Linux distro is the opposite. At the end of the day, the tool that requires the least maintenance and repetition of movements is the tool that actually offers the most real productivity advancement. To use my example, once I realized giving up precise input was completely negated by the freedom of zoom gestures, I realized the great economic benefit of the MT. I'm critically faster at navigating interfaces with gestures like double-tap-to-zoom. The best part is, Apple isn't trying to achieve market dominance the way MS did. They're simply offering high end products in high demand - and if they don't match your vision of what productive work should look like, you'll always have other options that will be much more popular in terms of market share. A lot of focused complaints like these, I think, are the result of Apple fans not taking advantage of new features that reduce contexts.
- joshmanders 10y ago
  Well put. Exactly how I feel. So many people are like "Yeah, enjoy your non-customizable iPhone." or other similar stuff about OS X/macOS but those are the beauties to me. The reasons I enjoy it so much. I don't want to spend 45 minutes customizing my devices. I just want to use them. I don't even care about the wallpaper on my machine anymore. I have an app installed that randomly updates the wallpaper using unsplash.com photos just incase there's that off chance that I see my desktop. Some people like to be productive, others like to control every aspect of their devices. It's okay. Choose based on your needs.
n1000 10y ago
I can't say I haven't tried. Every 12 months or so I install Linux and so far always came back. I bought a Surface Pro 4 because it seemed so Appleish, only I hardly ever use it. Windows 10 seems like the worst of both worlds. I spent hours on hacking simple configurations (as in *nix) and feel under heavier surveillance than on OS X.
ninedays 10y ago
The problem with this reasoning is that you assumed that Apple always had lots of money and that Apple always stockpile billions of cash but that is completely untrue. Back when Apple was months away from bankruptcy, Apple still had this dedication to details that we still find amazing today. I am amazed by how quickly people forgot in what position Apple was more than a decade ago. Apple caring about their products has nothing to with money. It just shows that they really care.
- 505 10y ago
  "caring about their products has nothing to with money. It just shows that they really care." I almost completely agree. But IMHO "really care" includes Apple organising its business so that really caring ends up making them money, without its being zero-sum.
behnamoh 10y ago
You have to understand, Apple's strategy is and has always been to make extraordinary products without shouting about it. Sure, they do advertise and run conferences, but they never bold these little details. This explains why caring about products is something all Apple employees do without thinking about monetizing it. It's true what they say: Steve Jobs' DNA still runs through Apple. Microsoft also has billions of cash, but never have they done such a thing. They even had more time and money than Apple in the 90s.

moepstar 10y ago

Should be in there since 10.9.x, albeit in the form of the dictation feature, not Siri...