4 ms·

Had the same feeling about Australia vs France. In Australia I'd pay $120 for a tax agent (~1% of my income tax), it would be over and I'd be happy about it. In

by tajen 10y ago

Had the same feeling about Australia vs France. In Australia I'd pay $120 for a tax agent (~1% of my income tax), it would be over and I'd be happy about it. In France I feel like I'm being chased, because it's such a socialist country: I earn €2000 per month after tax, I feel like I'm being told by the tax administration that I'm a thieve because I'm rich, even though they're the ones who attempted to double-tax me between Australia and France. I don't mind the 63%[1] that goes to the government between what my customers pay my company and what I receive as a net salary, it's just, they could at least make it respectful and simple. [1] VAT 20%, employer tax 50%, income tax 14% on the remainder, plus an accountant to understand the law and that makes 63%. Yes, I get I'm supposed to receive benefits from the mandatory insurances, except: - by design they never apply to the situations I might fall into (unemployment when you're between 2 countries, medical insurance when you travel, retirement going under the poverty levels by the time I'm 60, paraplegic benefit being under 800€ per month for the rest of your life - how are you supposed to live on that?). - and those taxes don't even succeed at keeping France afloat, because we have a socialist president who's hiring for about $6bn of policemen whose work is just to bust into Muslims' houses. Yeah, unemployment reduced, socialist goal fulfilled. Doesn't sound more social that giving a job to everyone undepending on their race, however. I'd be ok with 63% retention if it were simple and useful.

yaantc 10y ago
Not my feeling at all... As an employee filling taxes in France is super simple, just fill a web form with salary and banking pre-filled (just check). Done in under 15mn. Sometimes one can be in odd situation that don't fit well. It's also been my case some years ago when exercising and selling US stock options not considered as such in France (so taxed as salary, ouch...). Just ask them ahead, in my experience they reply and are clear. And I sent them the data with explanation on what I did, so they could correct easily if I misunderstood. Always been fine so far. Maybe you had worst experience and decided to move elsewhere, but no need to paint a bleaker picture. One can question the level of taxes and how they're used, but the payment itself is simple for most I'd say.
mattmanser 10y ago
This is very disingenuous, it would be more transparent if you led with the fact you've got a (very) complicated tax situation. VAT is also not your contribution, it's a client's, you collect it because you can offset it. So that 63% figure is pure and utter nonsense.
- tajen 10y ago
  You can't just compare the after-net salary income tax when you compare countries. How would you then compare a country with high income tax but low VAT? You need to take the whole cycle. As a software programmer, I receive money from people I sell the software to, pay VAT, pay social charges, pay income tax and I'm left with 37% of the money given by the clients, even though I have a very lean company (no office, no advertising costs in this calculation, no cloud costs, etc). That makes 63% of my revenue taken by the government. What did you mean with "pure and utter nonsense", apart from not wanting to acknowledge the tax pressure in France because you've never created a company and, therefore, don't know what you are talking about? How is creating a company "disinginuous because your tax situation is complicated"? What about we make it simple so we can focus on delivering a product for the customers (like, doing our job)? As said, I don't even mind the 63%, even though it's impoverishing everyone. I mind the paperwork.
- atemerev 10y ago
  > you've got a (very) complicated tax situation. Living in two countries in increasingly common situation. Postdocs in Europe are required to move between countries by many grant programs (this is why me and my wife have 4 different residence permits in varied countries). Also we have a 2 years old daughter. Taxes and other bureaucracy are hell for us. And scientists are not particularly rich.
- atemerev 10y ago
  VAT is everybody's contribution. When you spend salary, you pay VAT.

by tajen 10y ago

yaantc 10y ago

Not my feeling at all... As an employee filling taxes in France is super simple, just fill a web form with salary and banking pre-filled (just check). Done in under 15mn. Sometimes one can be in odd situation that don't fit well. It's also been my case some years ago when exercising and selling US stock options not considered as such in France (so taxed as salary, ouch...). Just ask them ahead, in my experience they reply and are clear. And I sent them the data with explanation on what I did, so they could correct easily if I misunderstood. Always been fine so far. Maybe you had worst experience and decided to move elsewhere, but no need to paint a bleaker picture. One can question the level of taxes and how they're used, but the payment itself is simple for most I'd say.

mattmanser 10y ago

This is very disingenuous, it would be more transparent if you led with the fact you've got a (very) complicated tax situation. VAT is also not your contribution, it's a client's, you collect it because you can offset it. So that 63% figure is pure and utter nonsense.

tajen 10y ago
You can't just compare the after-net salary income tax when you compare countries. How would you then compare a country with high income tax but low VAT? You need to take the whole cycle. As a software programmer, I receive money from people I sell the software to, pay VAT, pay social charges, pay income tax and I'm left with 37% of the money given by the clients, even though I have a very lean company (no office, no advertising costs in this calculation, no cloud costs, etc). That makes 63% of my revenue taken by the government. What did you mean with "pure and utter nonsense", apart from not wanting to acknowledge the tax pressure in France because you've never created a company and, therefore, don't know what you are talking about? How is creating a company "disinginuous because your tax situation is complicated"? What about we make it simple so we can focus on delivering a product for the customers (like, doing our job)? As said, I don't even mind the 63%, even though it's impoverishing everyone. I mind the paperwork.
atemerev 10y ago
> you've got a (very) complicated tax situation. Living in two countries in increasingly common situation. Postdocs in Europe are required to move between countries by many grant programs (this is why me and my wife have 4 different residence permits in varied countries). Also we have a 2 years old daughter. Taxes and other bureaucracy are hell for us. And scientists are not particularly rich.
atemerev 10y ago
VAT is everybody's contribution. When you spend salary, you pay VAT.