6 ms·

What's with this constant invoking of the 'faithful'? I work at a place that sells the iPad and I've had a lot of people ask me about it. The people who are buy

by crux 17y ago

What's with this constant invoking of the 'faithful'? I work at a place that sells the iPad and I've had a lot of people ask me about it. The people who are buying the iPad aren't exactly fanboys, who have been slavering over anything that Apple would put out. They're normal folks. A lot of them don't know any real specifics about the iPad, but they have the feeling that it would really be more enjoyable to use than their netbook. The notion that these Apple products only have niche appeal (because normal people value functionality and openness over prettiness) is kind of bonkers in the face of the extremely strong mainstream popularity of the various iPods as well as the iPhone.

xiaoma 17y ago
The iPhone is really open and functional compared to the phones that preceded it. Just downloading a ringtone for most prior phones was more expensive than full-fledged games on the iPhone. The app store is far from perfect, but it's a very open market compared to anything I've seen out of Nokia or any of the Japanese handset makers.
- whatusername 17y ago
  You lost me at ringtone. My 3210 (10 years ago!) you were able to program your own ringtones (in the little beeps that it could produce) Most other nokia's (my 6110) - to use a ringtone it was a case of put an mp3 file on the phone - then select the mp3 as the ringtone. Do you know what you have to do to get a ringtone on the iPhone?
  - pyre 17y ago
    A lot of carrier-branded phones have features like that disabled in favor of only allowing the user to purchase ringtones from the carrier's marketplace where you pay upwards of $3-$4 per ringtone (i.e. ringtones, at 30s or less, cost more than buying the entire song on iTunes). It is/was vendor lock-in at it's worst: create a captive audience, and then price gouge them because they don't know any better (i.e. "My old phone didn't have ringtones, but now I can buy ringtones from Verizon! Yay!"; without realizing that the phone itself supports user-created ringtones that you don't have to pay for). It's sort of the same for the iPhone now. People think it's great because they are used to phones with limited functionality, openness and usability. Compared to those phones that iPhone is a breath of fresh air. Apple's just playing a game of, "what they don't know can't hurt them." People don't sit down and think about exactly what their ideal device is like. They see the iPhone/iPad and thing that it's neat and mold their expectation around what they see (especially if their expectations were lower to begin with).
    - GeneralMaximus 17y ago
      A lot of carrier-branded phones have features like that disabled in favor of only allowing the user to purchase ringtones from the carrier's marketplace where you pay upwards of $3-$4 per ringtone (i.e. ringtones, at 30s or less, cost more than buying the entire song on iTunes). I would like to point out this is an American phenomenon. At least in India, the mobile market is completely open.
      - rbanffy 17y ago
        > I would like to point out this is an American phenomenon And this explains why the iPhone was somewhat underwhelming for the rest of the world. It's a great phone, sure, but no revolution.
      - benwerd 17y ago
        This. I think the iPhone was a complete boon to the US mobile market, which was suffering and locked down. In America, the iPhone is one of the most open handsets out there. However, everywhere else, where carriers have less of an ability to be quite as locked-down and evil, they're one of the least open.
  - xiaoma 17y ago
    >Do you know what you have to do to get a ringtone on the iPhone? Yep. They're free. Just download them as podcasts. http://macmost.com/free-iphone-ringtones http://macmost.com/free-iphone-ringtones Or even use iTunes to make them out of music on your computer: http://www.ehow.com/how_2160460_custom-iphone-ringtones-free.html http://www.ehow.com/how_2160460_custom-iphone-ringtones-free...
    - whatusername 17y ago
      So if someone pre-generates a strange file-format for you - it's almost as simple as my 5 year old nokia. Or there's a 17 step process. The way the iPhone handles it's ringtones is a step back from how most normal phones did. (// Note to American readers - if your carrier blocks a function - it means you have a bad carrier - not a bad phone) The iPhone excelled in having a great browser. And looking gorgeous. As far as Phone parts go (crap reception/quality, struggles with group sms, ringtones, etc) it was a step backwards from most phones on the market. Now that might be an acceptable trade-off, but it still needs to be stated.
      - xiaoma 17y ago
        I've never bought or owned a cellphone in America. My only basis for comparison is previous phones in Taiwan and Japan.
- rjurney 17y ago
  Its funny how easily people forget this - Apple created the first MARKET for mobile apps. Thats openness. Before the iPhone the mobile game was one big scam, with someone reaching into your pocket at each and every step in a long chain.
  - netcan 17y ago
    Compared to the various carriers, Apple's a peach.
  - rbanffy 17y ago
    > Apple created the first MARKET for mobile apps. Thats openness. I distinctly remember being able to install software I downloaded (or made) on my Sony Ericsson P-800 a good couple years before the iPhone was announced. In fact, digging a little back, I am sure you could install PalmOS apps on your Treos since the first day they were launched. And anyone could develop for both platforms (actually, there was Java ME too), anyone could host the file you would have to download to install and specify how, and if, you would pay for the download. In fact, many application stores appeared hosting zillions of smartphone apps you could download and install. Apple's market is not open at all. Apple decides if you will be able to sell the fruits of your development work. What Apple did is to corner both users and developers. And that's bad.
    - rjurney 17y ago
      How many people did? Why so few? No market to speak of. They made things one level free-er, which is the best they could have done given the constraints of the market and the technology. There are issues. They aren't villains for having issues.

by crux 17y ago

xiaoma 17y ago

The iPhone is really open and functional compared to the phones that preceded it. Just downloading a ringtone for most prior phones was more expensive than full-fledged games on the iPhone. The app store is far from perfect, but it's a very open market compared to anything I've seen out of Nokia or any of the Japanese handset makers.

whatusername 17y ago
You lost me at ringtone. My 3210 (10 years ago!) you were able to program your own ringtones (in the little beeps that it could produce) Most other nokia's (my 6110) - to use a ringtone it was a case of put an mp3 file on the phone - then select the mp3 as the ringtone. Do you know what you have to do to get a ringtone on the iPhone?
- pyre 17y ago
  A lot of carrier-branded phones have features like that disabled in favor of only allowing the user to purchase ringtones from the carrier's marketplace where you pay upwards of $3-$4 per ringtone (i.e. ringtones, at 30s or less, cost more than buying the entire song on iTunes). It is/was vendor lock-in at it's worst: create a captive audience, and then price gouge them because they don't know any better (i.e. "My old phone didn't have ringtones, but now I can buy ringtones from Verizon! Yay!"; without realizing that the phone itself supports user-created ringtones that you don't have to pay for). It's sort of the same for the iPhone now. People think it's great because they are used to phones with limited functionality, openness and usability. Compared to those phones that iPhone is a breath of fresh air. Apple's just playing a game of, "what they don't know can't hurt them." People don't sit down and think about exactly what their ideal device is like. They see the iPhone/iPad and thing that it's neat and mold their expectation around what they see (especially if their expectations were lower to begin with).
  - GeneralMaximus 17y ago
    A lot of carrier-branded phones have features like that disabled in favor of only allowing the user to purchase ringtones from the carrier's marketplace where you pay upwards of $3-$4 per ringtone (i.e. ringtones, at 30s or less, cost more than buying the entire song on iTunes). I would like to point out this is an American phenomenon. At least in India, the mobile market is completely open.
    - rbanffy 17y ago
      > I would like to point out this is an American phenomenon And this explains why the iPhone was somewhat underwhelming for the rest of the world. It's a great phone, sure, but no revolution.
    - benwerd 17y ago
      This. I think the iPhone was a complete boon to the US mobile market, which was suffering and locked down. In America, the iPhone is one of the most open handsets out there. However, everywhere else, where carriers have less of an ability to be quite as locked-down and evil, they're one of the least open.
- xiaoma 17y ago
  >Do you know what you have to do to get a ringtone on the iPhone? Yep. They're free. Just download them as podcasts. http://macmost.com/free-iphone-ringtones http://macmost.com/free-iphone-ringtones Or even use iTunes to make them out of music on your computer: http://www.ehow.com/how_2160460_custom-iphone-ringtones-free.html http://www.ehow.com/how_2160460_custom-iphone-ringtones-free...
  - whatusername 17y ago
    So if someone pre-generates a strange file-format for you - it's almost as simple as my 5 year old nokia. Or there's a 17 step process. The way the iPhone handles it's ringtones is a step back from how most normal phones did. (// Note to American readers - if your carrier blocks a function - it means you have a bad carrier - not a bad phone) The iPhone excelled in having a great browser. And looking gorgeous. As far as Phone parts go (crap reception/quality, struggles with group sms, ringtones, etc) it was a step backwards from most phones on the market. Now that might be an acceptable trade-off, but it still needs to be stated.
    - xiaoma 17y ago
      I've never bought or owned a cellphone in America. My only basis for comparison is previous phones in Taiwan and Japan.
rjurney 17y ago
Its funny how easily people forget this - Apple created the first MARKET for mobile apps. Thats openness. Before the iPhone the mobile game was one big scam, with someone reaching into your pocket at each and every step in a long chain.
- netcan 17y ago
  Compared to the various carriers, Apple's a peach.
- rbanffy 17y ago
  > Apple created the first MARKET for mobile apps. Thats openness. I distinctly remember being able to install software I downloaded (or made) on my Sony Ericsson P-800 a good couple years before the iPhone was announced. In fact, digging a little back, I am sure you could install PalmOS apps on your Treos since the first day they were launched. And anyone could develop for both platforms (actually, there was Java ME too), anyone could host the file you would have to download to install and specify how, and if, you would pay for the download. In fact, many application stores appeared hosting zillions of smartphone apps you could download and install. Apple's market is not open at all. Apple decides if you will be able to sell the fruits of your development work. What Apple did is to corner both users and developers. And that's bad.
  - rjurney 17y ago
    How many people did? Why so few? No market to speak of. They made things one level free-er, which is the best they could have done given the constraints of the market and the technology. There are issues. They aren't villains for having issues.