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To be completely fair, he slipped on the ice likely as a complication from heart disease. His doctors swear that his arteries and heart were the healthiest they

To be completely fair, he slipped on the ice likely as a complication from heart disease. His doctors swear that his arteries and heart were the healthiest they'd seen for someone that age except for the infected portion.

Cyph0n 10y ago
I don't get it: heart disease causes people to slip on ice?
- codeddesign 10y ago
  No, his body was fighting the heart disease but with the slip on the ice his body was not able to recover from both at the same time. In other words, he was an old man and with the new injury his body was not able to recover.
- dredmorbius 10y ago
  Compromised health tends to make effective responses to hazardous environmental conditions more difficult. Heart disease can affect strength, balance, coordination, mental function, and any number of other responses, much as a cold or flu or pnemonia can. You might care to review the recent video footage of a notable candidate visibly collapsing whilst being aided into a waiting van for transport, as a consequence of pnemonia. A condition more generally understood to affect the lungs than major skeletal muscles, but here clearly a contributing factor. Think systemically, please. Especially if you're in tech.
  - Cyph0n 10y ago
    > Think systemically, please. Especially if you're in tech. Which is why I would follow Occam's Razor in this scenario instead of using a convoluted theory to explain why someone slipped on ice. "Simple is better than complex." [1] [1]: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0020/ https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0020/
    - dredmorbius 10y ago
      I'm not claiming either that: 1. The direct cause of Robert Atkins' fallin on ice was heart disease. 2. That his falling on ice is proof of heart disease. Rather, I'm explaining how, as one of several precipitating factors, heart disease might be a factor in the question posed: "I don't get it: heart disease causes people to slip on ice?" I'm suggesting that a multifactor risk analysis be considered. It's the same multi-factor logic you might follow in answering questions of other disasters. Say: What caused the disaster of the RMS Titanic? What caused the Hindenberg disaster? What cause the Fukushima or Chernobyl disasters? What lead to the Bhopal disaster. Looking only at the precipitating or triggering cause misses many other opportunities for mitigation or avoidance. The Titanic would have been better served with more lifeboats, 24/7 manned radios, regular lifeboat drills, the originally-scheduled first officer not having (inadvertently) pocketed the key to the bridge's binoculars case, heeding ice warnings, less hubris on the part of passengers, owners, and regulatory boards. Old, sick people are more likely to slip and fall, and the hazards of such falls can be greater than for young, fit, healthy people. To amend to your Zen of Python list: make things as simple as possible, but no simpler.
      - Cyph0n 10y ago
        I see what you're saying now, but to be frank you could have saved some time with a shorter explanation.
        dredmorbius 10y ago
        Post short comment: be misread. Post longer clarification: dismissed as too wordy. Tough crowd.
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  - sbov 10y ago
    If he had heart disease, it would make him more prone to slipping on ice. But because he slipped on ice (which perfectly healthy people do all the fucking time), does not mean he had heart disease, or was even in any other of the hundreds of conditions (some of which might speak to his health, others which might not such as being distracted by something) that might have made him more prone to slipping on ice. So basically you've wandered into an "intro to critical thinking" level fallacy, which is especially ironic considering your last two sentences.
    - dredmorbius 10y ago
      I'm not arguing the fall is proof of heart disease. That's a misreading of my comment. Atkins is reported to have suffered cardiomyopathy -- a virally-induced form of heart disease -- by Dr. Stuart Trager, chairman of the Atkins Physicians Council: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/11/nyregion/just-what-killed-the-diet-doctor-and-what-keeps-the-issue-alive.html http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/11/nyregion/just-what-killed-... I'm somewhat familar with the particulars of the story and debate over Atkins' perceived or claimed health or disease, and the disagreements over both arguments. I'm not taking a particular side. But (as I've just commented to another response to my parent remarks above): yes, sick, frail, diseased, elderly people are more prone to falls than those who are well, strong, healthly, and young. And those falls can be fatal. Hence: heart disease can be a contributing factor to slipping on ice (or the resultant injuries and outcome).
  - deleted 10y ago
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  - hnbroseph 10y ago
    > Think systemically, please systemically, or systematically?
    - dredmorbius 10y ago
      Yes.
djsumdog 10y ago
Why are you spreading this myth? >Atkins' widow and Dr. Stuart Trager, the spokesperson for Atkins Physicians Council, both contend Robert Atkins weighed less than 200 pounds at the time of his accident, claiming "During his coma, as he deteriorated and his major organs failed, fluid retention and bloating dramatically distorted his body and left him at 258 pounds at the time of his death, a documented weight gain of over 60 pounds." > Thanks to his death certificate, we know Atkins was 258 pounds at the time of his death. Yet according to a copy of his medical records, as turned over to USA Today by the diet guru's widow, Atkins weighed 195 pounds upon admission to the hospital 8 April 2003 following his fall. He died on 17 April 2003 after having been in a coma for more than a week. Source: http://www.snopes.com/medical/doctor/atkins.asp http://www.snopes.com/medical/doctor/atkins.asp The dude was 72 years old. 72 year old people die of things like slipping on ice and cracking their heads. When he was admitted to the hospital, he was totally healthy, except for the head injury. There was no sign of any heart problems, except for some controversial leaked reports. The tragedy is that Atkins really wanted people to be healthy and his diet was/is very healthy. It's very similar to Keto and many other low-carb diets. It's myths that keep countries like American in a downward spiral of obesity.
- chimeracoder 10y ago
  > When he was admitted to the hospital, he was totally healthy, except for the head injury. There was no sign of any heart problems, except for some controversial leaked reports. He did have cardiomyopathy for a few years before that, and a cardiac arrest the year before he died. He didn't die of a heart attack, but it's an overcorrection to say that there was 'no sign of any heart problems'.
kjdal2001 10y ago
More likely its a complication of the fact that ice is slippery.

Cyph0n 10y ago

I don't get it: heart disease causes people to slip on ice?

codeddesign 10y ago
No, his body was fighting the heart disease but with the slip on the ice his body was not able to recover from both at the same time. In other words, he was an old man and with the new injury his body was not able to recover.
dredmorbius 10y ago
Compromised health tends to make effective responses to hazardous environmental conditions more difficult. Heart disease can affect strength, balance, coordination, mental function, and any number of other responses, much as a cold or flu or pnemonia can. You might care to review the recent video footage of a notable candidate visibly collapsing whilst being aided into a waiting van for transport, as a consequence of pnemonia. A condition more generally understood to affect the lungs than major skeletal muscles, but here clearly a contributing factor. Think systemically, please. Especially if you're in tech.
- Cyph0n 10y ago
  > Think systemically, please. Especially if you're in tech. Which is why I would follow Occam's Razor in this scenario instead of using a convoluted theory to explain why someone slipped on ice. "Simple is better than complex." [1] [1]: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0020/ https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0020/
  - dredmorbius 10y ago
    I'm not claiming either that: 1. The direct cause of Robert Atkins' fallin on ice was heart disease. 2. That his falling on ice is proof of heart disease. Rather, I'm explaining how, as one of several precipitating factors, heart disease might be a factor in the question posed: "I don't get it: heart disease causes people to slip on ice?" I'm suggesting that a multifactor risk analysis be considered. It's the same multi-factor logic you might follow in answering questions of other disasters. Say: What caused the disaster of the RMS Titanic? What caused the Hindenberg disaster? What cause the Fukushima or Chernobyl disasters? What lead to the Bhopal disaster. Looking only at the precipitating or triggering cause misses many other opportunities for mitigation or avoidance. The Titanic would have been better served with more lifeboats, 24/7 manned radios, regular lifeboat drills, the originally-scheduled first officer not having (inadvertently) pocketed the key to the bridge's binoculars case, heeding ice warnings, less hubris on the part of passengers, owners, and regulatory boards. Old, sick people are more likely to slip and fall, and the hazards of such falls can be greater than for young, fit, healthy people. To amend to your Zen of Python list: make things as simple as possible, but no simpler.
    - Cyph0n 10y ago
      I see what you're saying now, but to be frank you could have saved some time with a shorter explanation.
      - dredmorbius 10y ago
        Post short comment: be misread. Post longer clarification: dismissed as too wordy. Tough crowd.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- sbov 10y ago
  If he had heart disease, it would make him more prone to slipping on ice. But because he slipped on ice (which perfectly healthy people do all the fucking time), does not mean he had heart disease, or was even in any other of the hundreds of conditions (some of which might speak to his health, others which might not such as being distracted by something) that might have made him more prone to slipping on ice. So basically you've wandered into an "intro to critical thinking" level fallacy, which is especially ironic considering your last two sentences.
  - dredmorbius 10y ago
    I'm not arguing the fall is proof of heart disease. That's a misreading of my comment. Atkins is reported to have suffered cardiomyopathy -- a virally-induced form of heart disease -- by Dr. Stuart Trager, chairman of the Atkins Physicians Council: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/11/nyregion/just-what-killed-the-diet-doctor-and-what-keeps-the-issue-alive.html http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/11/nyregion/just-what-killed-... I'm somewhat familar with the particulars of the story and debate over Atkins' perceived or claimed health or disease, and the disagreements over both arguments. I'm not taking a particular side. But (as I've just commented to another response to my parent remarks above): yes, sick, frail, diseased, elderly people are more prone to falls than those who are well, strong, healthly, and young. And those falls can be fatal. Hence: heart disease can be a contributing factor to slipping on ice (or the resultant injuries and outcome).
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- hnbroseph 10y ago
  > Think systemically, please systemically, or systematically?
  - dredmorbius 10y ago
    Yes.

djsumdog 10y ago

Why are you spreading this myth? >Atkins' widow and Dr. Stuart Trager, the spokesperson for Atkins Physicians Council, both contend Robert Atkins weighed less than 200 pounds at the time of his accident, claiming "During his coma, as he deteriorated and his major organs failed, fluid retention and bloating dramatically distorted his body and left him at 258 pounds at the time of his death, a documented weight gain of over 60 pounds." > Thanks to his death certificate, we know Atkins was 258 pounds at the time of his death. Yet according to a copy of his medical records, as turned over to USA Today by the diet guru's widow, Atkins weighed 195 pounds upon admission to the hospital 8 April 2003 following his fall. He died on 17 April 2003 after having been in a coma for more than a week. Source: http://www.snopes.com/medical/doctor/atkins.asp http://www.snopes.com/medical/doctor/atkins.asp The dude was 72 years old. 72 year old people die of things like slipping on ice and cracking their heads. When he was admitted to the hospital, he was totally healthy, except for the head injury. There was no sign of any heart problems, except for some controversial leaked reports. The tragedy is that Atkins really wanted people to be healthy and his diet was/is very healthy. It's very similar to Keto and many other low-carb diets. It's myths that keep countries like American in a downward spiral of obesity.

chimeracoder 10y ago
> When he was admitted to the hospital, he was totally healthy, except for the head injury. There was no sign of any heart problems, except for some controversial leaked reports. He did have cardiomyopathy for a few years before that, and a cardiac arrest the year before he died. He didn't die of a heart attack, but it's an overcorrection to say that there was 'no sign of any heart problems'.

kjdal2001 10y ago

More likely its a complication of the fact that ice is slippery.