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You do understand the citizens of North Korea are effectively captives, and victims, not enablers of the regime, right? Starving out North Korea to win the war

You do understand the citizens of North Korea are effectively captives, and victims, not enablers of the regime, right? Starving out North Korea to win the war will leave behind nothing worth rescuing.

omginternets 10y ago
Other than human life, what is there right now that's worth rescuing? I'm not trying to be provocative. I just can't for the life of me find an argument for preserving anything in the DPRK aside from human life. Since the parent post is effectively arguing that ending the North Korean regime is worth sacrificing some number of people, I'm struggling to understand your counter-argument.
grimmdude 10y ago
At what point does the status of millions of citizens shift from captives to enablers?
MrZongle2 10y ago
You do understand the citizens of North Korea are effectively captives, and victims, not enablers of the regime, right? And from where does the Kim regime get its enforcers? From the same pool of citizens that will be starving. There may be some trickle-down of food and medicine to those that oversee the dirty work, but when things get dire enough even they will see the writing on the wall. Helping North Korea merely prolongs the status quo, and has been the case for decades. What would the Korean peninsula look like today if the international community had ignored the DPRK during its 1994-1998 famine?
- SEJeff 10y ago
  They also see Kim as effectively a god, in some ways like a more brutal version of Imperial Japan. They'll never revolt anymore than you'd see Catholics attacking Jesus.
  - 67726e 10y ago
    And yet you have defections. North Koreans are stupid as to think their rotund leader is a god while their family starves.
    - SEJeff 10y ago
      And the defectors still think the movie literally trolling Kim isn't even funny: http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/the-interview-north-korean-defectors-find-nothing-funny-in-the-film-722063 http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/the-interview-north-korean-de...
  - Grazester 10y ago
    Let's see Kim turn a few loaves and fish into thousands to feed his people then.
    - MrZongle2 10y ago
      That's my thought as well. What kind of god is a god who does nothing or can be thwarted by the actions of mortals (e.g. the United States, UN and South Korea)? It's not unreasonable to think that even among the most fervent Kim-worshippers, the elder Kims could still be revered but the current Great Leader seen as "unworthy". After all, he is Kim Jong-il's fourth son and spent time in the West.
  - douche 10y ago
    If there was ever a decent reason to use a stealth drone with a hellfire missile... Although something less theatrical would probably be better for stability in the aftermath.
- foota 10y ago
  Empty?
  - MrZongle2 10y ago
    Emptier, possibly. Or it could be run by a post-coup civilian government on track to complete unification with the South, and devoid of a nuclear program.
hx87 10y ago
If having hostages allow a captor greater freedom of action than they otherwise would, then willing or not, the hostages are enablers. Being an enabler has nothing to do with free will.

omginternets 10y ago

Other than human life, what is there right now that's worth rescuing? I'm not trying to be provocative. I just can't for the life of me find an argument for preserving anything in the DPRK aside from human life. Since the parent post is effectively arguing that ending the North Korean regime is worth sacrificing some number of people, I'm struggling to understand your counter-argument.

grimmdude 10y ago

At what point does the status of millions of citizens shift from captives to enablers?

MrZongle2 10y ago

You do understand the citizens of North Korea are effectively captives, and victims, not enablers of the regime, right? And from where does the Kim regime get its enforcers? From the same pool of citizens that will be starving. There may be some trickle-down of food and medicine to those that oversee the dirty work, but when things get dire enough even they will see the writing on the wall. Helping North Korea merely prolongs the status quo, and has been the case for decades. What would the Korean peninsula look like today if the international community had ignored the DPRK during its 1994-1998 famine?

SEJeff 10y ago
They also see Kim as effectively a god, in some ways like a more brutal version of Imperial Japan. They'll never revolt anymore than you'd see Catholics attacking Jesus.
- 67726e 10y ago
  And yet you have defections. North Koreans are stupid as to think their rotund leader is a god while their family starves.
  - SEJeff 10y ago
    And the defectors still think the movie literally trolling Kim isn't even funny: http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/the-interview-north-korean-defectors-find-nothing-funny-in-the-film-722063 http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/the-interview-north-korean-de...
- Grazester 10y ago
  Let's see Kim turn a few loaves and fish into thousands to feed his people then.
  - MrZongle2 10y ago
    That's my thought as well. What kind of god is a god who does nothing or can be thwarted by the actions of mortals (e.g. the United States, UN and South Korea)? It's not unreasonable to think that even among the most fervent Kim-worshippers, the elder Kims could still be revered but the current Great Leader seen as "unworthy". After all, he is Kim Jong-il's fourth son and spent time in the West.
- douche 10y ago
  If there was ever a decent reason to use a stealth drone with a hellfire missile... Although something less theatrical would probably be better for stability in the aftermath.
foota 10y ago
Empty?
- MrZongle2 10y ago
  Emptier, possibly. Or it could be run by a post-coup civilian government on track to complete unification with the South, and devoid of a nuclear program.

hx87 10y ago

If having hostages allow a captor greater freedom of action than they otherwise would, then willing or not, the hostages are enablers. Being an enabler has nothing to do with free will.