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I want a pony. Rather than asteroid mining, what I want in my lifetime is an end to mining, period, an end to exploitative adventurism, an end to expanding our
by astazangasta 10y ago
I want a pony.
Rather than asteroid mining, what I want in my lifetime is an end to mining, period, an end to exploitative adventurism, an end to expanding our rapaciousness across the cosmos. I want the development of organic, sustainable technologies that don't depend on endless inputs. I want people to love the beauty on this planet before lusting to see another.
- Pfhreak 10y agoWe should do both. There are a lot of avenues to research and grow our knowledge. Ideally, the lessons we learn in building a sustainable colony offworld lead to increases in sustainability here on Earth. And what we learn about managing ecosystems here leads to respectful treatment of offworld systems from the start.
- astazangasta 10y ago"Should" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPACE_Act_of_2015 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPACE_Act_of_2015 >The update to US law explicitly allows "US citizens to engage in the commercial exploration and exploitation of 'space resources' [including ... water and minerals]."
- whiskers08xmt 10y agoThe idea of ruining or polluting space is ridiculous. Space is already one of the least hospitable places imaginable, in most of it's forms. What's wrong with exploiting dead space rocks for the sake of all life?
- jacquesm 10y agoPolluting the space near earth is already quite a big problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_debris https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_debris https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome
- strictnein 10y agoI see the beauty in my state, but still want to visit other states. I see the beauty in my country, but still want to visit other countries. Not sure why this thought should end at our atmosphere. Also, the only thing that will end mining on this planet is if all humans are dead. Until the Zharnog Mining Fleet from Seeplebop 14 strip mines the entire planet, that is.
- astazangasta 10y ago>Also, the only thing that will end mining on this planet is if all humans are dead. No, we just need to stop depending on metals and fossil fuels, both of which are possible and desirable. We've already come close to achieving the latter; the work of this century will be doing the former. Unless we waste all of our time trying to get into space, that useless, airless desert.
- jkaunisv1 10y agoHow would we have ubiquitous computing without metals? Or really any tools, modern or not?
- astazangasta 10y agoYes, where on Earth can we find examples of computing that rely only on organic inputs?
- fixermark 10y agoHey, if you can find some with radio or miles-distant electrical or optical signalling features, go for it. Until then, I'm going to want at least a few crust-extracted materials to keep the Internet operational so we can even have this conversation from casually-anonymous points on the globe.
- astazangasta 10y agoHere's some hope for optical signalling: http://www.nature.com/articles/srep13615 http://www.nature.com/articles/srep13615 I have very little doubt we'll be printing long wires using just carbon in the next few decades. Until then, sure, let's use crust-extracted materials, but the advantages to making them obsolete are enormous and available.
- rohit89 10y agoHonestly, the universe would easily be able to sustain our rapaciousness if we had the tech to actually go and claim it. I actually really like Bezos' idea of moving all industries off-planet.
- greglindahl 10y agoYou might try reading more science fiction -- not only did it explore "Bezos' idea" long before he ever said it, it also has plenty of fun outcomes for how the universe can't sustain our rapaciousness.
- mikeash 10y agoAn end to mining, so, a return to hunter-gatherer culture? What do you plan to do with the billions of surplus people?
- astazangasta 10y agoErr, what? No, I want advanced carbon-based technologies. You know, what trees do - make things out of carbon, nitrogen, etc., and fucking amazing biochemistry.
- dalke 10y agoWe extract natural gas as part of the Haber process to provide nitrogen. We mine phosphate rock for fertilizer, since P is one of those elements plants need. Mined potash provides the K. We can do without them, but we'll take a huge hit in food crop yield.
- astazangasta 10y agoYou want us to colonize space, but you refuse to imagine alternatives to the Haber process because of the hit in food crop yields?
- stevetrewick 10y agoThat 'hit' is equivalent to reducing the carrying capacity of the planet by ~5 billion humans or using 50% of the ice free land mass for agriculture to support them.
- astazangasta 10y agoAgain, only if you believe there is no alternative to using the Haber process to make nitrogen inputs for agriculture to provide humans with food. If, like me, you believe that the Haber process was invented at the turn of the previous century, and it's time for us to grow up and master biochemistry, then the "hit" is entirely avoidable.
- marktangotango 10y agoUnfortunate that this comment is being downvoted to oblivion; it's a valid conjecture, and not one I've seen. Something similar that gets little or no attention is: humanities influence on species of the planet, from out right genocide and extinctions, to eugenics. There's an extreme formulation of environmentalism one could derive from David Brins Uplift stories; that the most moral thing we can do for the Potential sentient species on the planet that have not arisen yet (or maybe they have) is to get ourselves off of the planet entirely, and let nature takes its course.
- nixos 10y ago> organic, sustainable technologies that don't depend on endless inputs The reason we have good things is because we have relatively unlimited energy and raw material goods. It's not like we have some "magic" cave men didn't.
- astazangasta 10y agoWait, you don't think splitting the atom, or even using advanced geospatial imaging to locate and extract oil deposits from miles underground, qualifies as "magic" that cave men didn't have? Closed loops are possible. Your carbon inputs and outputs are relatively meager; you are a machine with a small cost in energy and entropy, easily paid. Etc. for our dependencies (buildings, cars, etc.). The big advantage humans have over nature is we don't have to rely on ecosystems to supply our energy budgets; we can generate power directly from the sun, or from atoms, or a dozen other ways.
- nixos 10y ago> Wait, you don't think splitting the atom, or even using advanced geospatial imaging to locate and extract oil deposits from miles underground, qualifies as "magic" that cave men didn't have? Involves mining. I'm just saying that you can't have humanity camp out in a forest forever and have a 21st century quality of life.
- qaq 10y agoAnd you are posting this message using device made of organic materials?
- dcposch 10y ago> Rather than asteroid mining, what I want in my lifetime is an end to mining, period Probably typed on an aluminum Macbook, containing boron-doped silicon chips, in a house heated by natural gas and powered by the same or by coal
- TheSpiceIsLife 10y agoYes, but wanting it and stating so is a status symbol of holier-than-thou ecology.
- astazangasta 10y agoI'm mystified by how many comments in this thread are of this form, unable to imagine that technology in the future might differ from what we currently employ. We are in the middle of a project, right now, to make natural gas and coal obsolete. This shouldn't even require any imagination to conceive. Yet, still, you chastise me for doing so? Recall, we're imagining the future, not regurgitating the present.
- dcposch 10y agoIt's safe to say that the future will still use metal to build things. Saying you want roughly 100% fossil free energy is bold but might happen in our lifetime. Saying you want to end all mining period is just environmentalist virtue signalling.