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Safer how? They are missing cameras and sensors, this won't be a simple software upgrade. I think people are handwaving away the true difficulty of door-to-doo

Safer how? They are missing cameras and sensors, this won't be a simple software upgrade. I think people are handwaving away the true difficulty of door-to-door (as opposed to lane-keeping) driver-less cars that can operate safely without humans being attentive all the time.

robotresearcher 10y ago
> They are missing cameras and sensors Human drivers have actively-pointed stereo vision sensors, IMU, and haptic feedback from the steering wheel and pedals. That's it. We know it can be done with only those sensors.
- cromwellian 10y ago
  We know it can be done unsafely, to the tune of 30,000 deaths on American highways every year. We want cars to have super human sensor capability, otherwise, there's no point.
  - buzzybee 10y ago
    I think the criticism is real, but also that we market the pre-stage 4 technologies inappropriately by implementing them as binary "completely hands off, else emergency" systems. Integrated in a way that is more assisted, keeping the driver in control of the overall decisions but making some cautionary adjustments to implementation of those decisions to adjust speed or direction to stay in lane, avoid excessive tailgating, allow merges, etc., they could still be powerful tools to reduce some number of that death toll.
    - cromwellian 10y ago
      I agree, I would keep it is strictly a "backseat driver" assistant, looking to intervene when you're stupid, but the way Tesla is marketing this feature is dangerous. The software should not let you take your hands off the wheel and offer no "off switch" to get access to hidden 'full autopilot' mode, because people's lives are gated by the riskiest, dumbest drivers. This is one issue where being "open" with respect to the system software is bad, and being more "Apple"-like in imposing restrictions is for the greater good.
  - robotresearcher 10y ago
    We know that the best driver in the world uses that sensor suite, and the worst. If every driver drove like the best human driver, never got tired or drunk, is that pointless?
- ModernMech 10y ago
  And those sensors require software (our brains) far surpassing anything man-made. Until we have the software capable of doing what the brain does, then we'll need better sensors to pick up the slack.
SEJeff 10y ago
They have cameras and radar currently, I'm not sure what you're referring to? I'm pretty sure anyone sane realizes that the current production shipping autopilot hardware is not capable of fully autonomous driving ie: 100% humanless. I also think that no one is handwaving anything as it is a problem that as of yet, has never been solved. However, data is an enabler for this and having more of it means Tesla is uniquely positioned to crack that nut before anyone else. Teslas are collecting data even when AP isn't enabled. That doesn't mean the cameras are off or the radar is off (they aren't). This simple fact gives Tesla a leg up over virtually all of the competition and until Uber has the same or superior tech on all of the uber fleet, they'll be lagging. So... When the tech is capable of full autonomy, Tesla will be sitting on an absolute treasure trove of fleet data, which they'll be able to exploit.
- cromwellian 10y ago
  But are they collecting the right data? Google's cars are collecting hyper-accurate road data, their radar has longer range, and LIDAR coverage is 360 degrees. If you look at the sensor map of the Model S, it has gaps in its field of view. Is a Model S making a left turn at a crowded intersection with limited field of view, going to see the pedestrian behind the bushes that's about to step out?

robotresearcher 10y ago

> They are missing cameras and sensors Human drivers have actively-pointed stereo vision sensors, IMU, and haptic feedback from the steering wheel and pedals. That's it. We know it can be done with only those sensors.

cromwellian 10y ago
We know it can be done unsafely, to the tune of 30,000 deaths on American highways every year. We want cars to have super human sensor capability, otherwise, there's no point.
- buzzybee 10y ago
  I think the criticism is real, but also that we market the pre-stage 4 technologies inappropriately by implementing them as binary "completely hands off, else emergency" systems. Integrated in a way that is more assisted, keeping the driver in control of the overall decisions but making some cautionary adjustments to implementation of those decisions to adjust speed or direction to stay in lane, avoid excessive tailgating, allow merges, etc., they could still be powerful tools to reduce some number of that death toll.
  - cromwellian 10y ago
    I agree, I would keep it is strictly a "backseat driver" assistant, looking to intervene when you're stupid, but the way Tesla is marketing this feature is dangerous. The software should not let you take your hands off the wheel and offer no "off switch" to get access to hidden 'full autopilot' mode, because people's lives are gated by the riskiest, dumbest drivers. This is one issue where being "open" with respect to the system software is bad, and being more "Apple"-like in imposing restrictions is for the greater good.
- robotresearcher 10y ago
  We know that the best driver in the world uses that sensor suite, and the worst. If every driver drove like the best human driver, never got tired or drunk, is that pointless?
ModernMech 10y ago
And those sensors require software (our brains) far surpassing anything man-made. Until we have the software capable of doing what the brain does, then we'll need better sensors to pick up the slack.

SEJeff 10y ago

They have cameras and radar currently, I'm not sure what you're referring to? I'm pretty sure anyone sane realizes that the current production shipping autopilot hardware is not capable of fully autonomous driving ie: 100% humanless. I also think that no one is handwaving anything as it is a problem that as of yet, has never been solved. However, data is an enabler for this and having more of it means Tesla is uniquely positioned to crack that nut before anyone else. Teslas are collecting data even when AP isn't enabled. That doesn't mean the cameras are off or the radar is off (they aren't). This simple fact gives Tesla a leg up over virtually all of the competition and until Uber has the same or superior tech on all of the uber fleet, they'll be lagging. So... When the tech is capable of full autonomy, Tesla will be sitting on an absolute treasure trove of fleet data, which they'll be able to exploit.

cromwellian 10y ago
But are they collecting the right data? Google's cars are collecting hyper-accurate road data, their radar has longer range, and LIDAR coverage is 360 degrees. If you look at the sensor map of the Model S, it has gaps in its field of view. Is a Model S making a left turn at a crowded intersection with limited field of view, going to see the pedestrian behind the bushes that's about to step out?