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Well the people writing them are also receiving a large amount of power when they are working in the law. The people involved have already spent massive sums o

by lithos 10y ago

Well the people writing them are also receiving a large amount of power when they are working in the law. The people involved have already spent massive sums on lobbying, and to me this feels like an extension of that lobbying.

rayiner 10y ago
You've got the causation backwards. ASTM is an engineering organization like ISO. They develop industry-consensus standards, just like ISO. Their codes didn't get adopted as the standard because they lobbied for them (do you even have any evidence ASTM lobbied to get its standards adopted?). They got adopted because they were the industry standards. It's like if a law stated that certain government contractors must use ADA or C. They'd refer to the ISO standards for those languages, but nobody could reasonably come along after the fact and say they did so because of lobbying by ISO!
- dredmorbius 10y ago
  And yet ASTM maintains a Washington, DC, presence, with public policy (a/k/a lobbying) positions. ASTM Washington Office Jeff Grove, Vice-President, Global Policy and Industry Affairs 202-xxx-xxxx Anthony Quinn, Director, Public Policy and International Trade 202-xxx-xxxx http://www.astm.org/CONTACT/headquar.htm http://www.astm.org/CONTACT/headquar.htm Even if ASTM itself doesn't directly lobby, it's ... delightfully or frighteningly charming, take your pick, that the naive view of an industry organisation not being utilised by its members for their direct benefit through rules-setting wouldn't find itself used to do so. Directly, indirectly, overtly, or otherwise. Congressional Record lists 188 results for ASTM in Congressional testimony and documents: https://www.congress.gov/search?q=%7B"source"%3A"congrecord"%2C"search"%3A"astm"%7D https://www.congress.gov/search?q=%7B"source"%3A"congrecord"... Note that ASTM is principally active at city, county, and state levels, for which comparable archives are much less available.
- dredmorbius 10y ago
  ASTM are documented to have retained a lobbying firm in the UK: http://whoslobbying.com/uk/astm_international http://whoslobbying.com/uk/astm_international Sep 2010 - Nov 2010 APCO WORLDWIDE provided UK public affairs consultancy services to ASTM International. [2]

by lithos 10y ago

rayiner 10y ago

You've got the causation backwards. ASTM is an engineering organization like ISO. They develop industry-consensus standards, just like ISO. Their codes didn't get adopted as the standard because they lobbied for them (do you even have any evidence ASTM lobbied to get its standards adopted?). They got adopted because they were the industry standards. It's like if a law stated that certain government contractors must use ADA or C. They'd refer to the ISO standards for those languages, but nobody could reasonably come along after the fact and say they did so because of lobbying by ISO!

dredmorbius 10y ago
And yet ASTM maintains a Washington, DC, presence, with public policy (a/k/a lobbying) positions. ASTM Washington Office Jeff Grove, Vice-President, Global Policy and Industry Affairs 202-xxx-xxxx Anthony Quinn, Director, Public Policy and International Trade 202-xxx-xxxx http://www.astm.org/CONTACT/headquar.htm http://www.astm.org/CONTACT/headquar.htm Even if ASTM itself doesn't directly lobby, it's ... delightfully or frighteningly charming, take your pick, that the naive view of an industry organisation not being utilised by its members for their direct benefit through rules-setting wouldn't find itself used to do so. Directly, indirectly, overtly, or otherwise. Congressional Record lists 188 results for ASTM in Congressional testimony and documents: https://www.congress.gov/search?q=%7B"source"%3A"congrecord"%2C"search"%3A"astm"%7D https://www.congress.gov/search?q=%7B"source"%3A"congrecord"... Note that ASTM is principally active at city, county, and state levels, for which comparable archives are much less available.
dredmorbius 10y ago
ASTM are documented to have retained a lobbying firm in the UK: http://whoslobbying.com/uk/astm_international http://whoslobbying.com/uk/astm_international Sep 2010 - Nov 2010 APCO WORLDWIDE provided UK public affairs consultancy services to ASTM International. [2]