4 ms·

I still count three frameworks :) (React, Node, sequelize, I'm not counting webpack but I probably would if it's anything like as much of a pain as Grunt or Gu

I still count three frameworks :) (React, Node, sequelize, I'm not counting webpack but I probably would if it's anything like as much of a pain as Grunt or Gulp or... And as you say, this is the lightweight version.)

9point6 10y ago
Ah I wouldn't count Node as a framework as I'd equate it to the JVM in Java world. But you are right, I'd probably lump webpack in there as it does have a fair bit of depth to it if you want to get the most out of it.
- aclsid 10y ago
  You still need to use Express or something similar on the server side for Javascript, I mean, if we are talking about standard procedures here. Plus with React, you are still doing that Javascript/CSS thingy and HTML of course at some point, so there is no avoiding that, and clearfixes, polyfills, etc, etc.
  - tracker1 10y ago
    But all of these things you're bitching about combined are far smaller than even ASP.Net without including anything client-side.
frostymarvelous 10y ago
And how many frameworks can you count in a win forms or wpf application? If we're going to count frameworks, there'd be no end it. As I once said, programming is abstraction upon abstraction. Like an onion, a Russia doll or better still, inception. Frameworks abound everywhere, at every layer. You just need to adjust your scope as you see fit, to find them.
- soundwave106 10y ago
  Honestly from the programmer's perspective, it's really just one framework: .NET. I know that .NET abstracts away other frameworks such as the Win32 API, but generally you don't need to know any Win32 API etc. to make a Winforms / WPF / etc. application. With modern "web application" style development, it seems these days you need to know multiple frameworks by default, for better or for worse. More to the point, .NET was designed from the get go as an enterprise programming language. The web was not designed from the beginning to be a universal application platform, it was designed to display formatted hyperlinked text. Much of the hack-y feel of today's web development -- as well as other aspects such as the rather poor security -- springs from this. If the web were designed from the get-go to be a universal sandboxed application platform, I feel that many things (ranging from the scripting language choice to the DOM model) would have looked a lot different today. Standard, non interactive HTML + CSS (what the web was designed for) certainly doesn't feel too hacky after all.
  - atoko 10y ago
    You are confusing .Net, C# and WP* frameworks. .Net is closer to the JVM, C# is the language and WP* are libraries that interact with w32 apis
    - Fire-Dragon-DoL 10y ago
      As rpeden pointed out, it's you that are confusing the things. CLR is what JVM is for C#, while all the stuff I mentioned are inside the .net framework
    - rpeden 10y ago
      Not trying to be pedantic, just posting to set the record straight: - WPF, WinForms, ASP.NET, ADO.NET etc. etc. are all officially part of the .NET Framework. - WPF doesn't do much (or any) direct interaction with Win32. It uses Direct#D for rendering. - The CLR is the .NET equivalent of the JVM. It's useful to look at the .NET Framework the same way as the standard library that ships with the JVM. They're both large standard libraries that include GUI Library (AWT, Swing, JavaFX, Winforms, WPF), database access (JDBC, ADO.NET). In both cases, the extensive standard library can easily be used by multiple languages (i.e. VB, C#, F# in .NET, Java, Scala, Clojure and many others on the JVM).
tracker1 10y ago
Node is a runtime, not a framework/language, and if you use a JS friendly DB (there are many with transparent APIs available (rethinkdb, mongo, etc) then it's all just JS.

9point6 10y ago

Ah I wouldn't count Node as a framework as I'd equate it to the JVM in Java world. But you are right, I'd probably lump webpack in there as it does have a fair bit of depth to it if you want to get the most out of it.

aclsid 10y ago
You still need to use Express or something similar on the server side for Javascript, I mean, if we are talking about standard procedures here. Plus with React, you are still doing that Javascript/CSS thingy and HTML of course at some point, so there is no avoiding that, and clearfixes, polyfills, etc, etc.
- tracker1 10y ago
  But all of these things you're bitching about combined are far smaller than even ASP.Net without including anything client-side.

frostymarvelous 10y ago

And how many frameworks can you count in a win forms or wpf application? If we're going to count frameworks, there'd be no end it. As I once said, programming is abstraction upon abstraction. Like an onion, a Russia doll or better still, inception. Frameworks abound everywhere, at every layer. You just need to adjust your scope as you see fit, to find them.

soundwave106 10y ago
Honestly from the programmer's perspective, it's really just one framework: .NET. I know that .NET abstracts away other frameworks such as the Win32 API, but generally you don't need to know any Win32 API etc. to make a Winforms / WPF / etc. application. With modern "web application" style development, it seems these days you need to know multiple frameworks by default, for better or for worse. More to the point, .NET was designed from the get go as an enterprise programming language. The web was not designed from the beginning to be a universal application platform, it was designed to display formatted hyperlinked text. Much of the hack-y feel of today's web development -- as well as other aspects such as the rather poor security -- springs from this. If the web were designed from the get-go to be a universal sandboxed application platform, I feel that many things (ranging from the scripting language choice to the DOM model) would have looked a lot different today. Standard, non interactive HTML + CSS (what the web was designed for) certainly doesn't feel too hacky after all.
- atoko 10y ago
  You are confusing .Net, C# and WP* frameworks. .Net is closer to the JVM, C# is the language and WP* are libraries that interact with w32 apis
  - Fire-Dragon-DoL 10y ago
    As rpeden pointed out, it's you that are confusing the things. CLR is what JVM is for C#, while all the stuff I mentioned are inside the .net framework
  - rpeden 10y ago
    Not trying to be pedantic, just posting to set the record straight: - WPF, WinForms, ASP.NET, ADO.NET etc. etc. are all officially part of the .NET Framework. - WPF doesn't do much (or any) direct interaction with Win32. It uses Direct#D for rendering. - The CLR is the .NET equivalent of the JVM. It's useful to look at the .NET Framework the same way as the standard library that ships with the JVM. They're both large standard libraries that include GUI Library (AWT, Swing, JavaFX, Winforms, WPF), database access (JDBC, ADO.NET). In both cases, the extensive standard library can easily be used by multiple languages (i.e. VB, C#, F# in .NET, Java, Scala, Clojure and many others on the JVM).

tracker1 10y ago

Node is a runtime, not a framework/language, and if you use a JS friendly DB (there are many with transparent APIs available (rethinkdb, mongo, etc) then it's all just JS.