5 ms·

IPad's Lack of Flash Is Not Due to Any 'Shortcomings' With Flash; Blame Apple

15 points by yumraj 17y ago

ryandvm 17y ago
Apple is taking a surprisingly risky gamble by telling the Farmville and Internet porn addicts to get lost. Though I technically agree that Flash is a buggy platform, I'm surprised Apple thinks they have enough clout to kill it by ignoring it. Google is taking the appropriate route by cozying up with Adobe on Android and Chrome/ChromeOS. My prediction is that the tablet scene will play out exactly like the smartphones have. The iPhone was groundbreaking and set the bar for interface and performance. Two years later everyone else shows up with polished products (Android 2, Windows Phone 7, etc.) and starts eating Apple's lunch (http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/03/iphone-os-still-dominates-mobile-web-android-on-the-way-up.ars http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/03/iphone-os-still-do...). Expect the Android or Chromium based tablets to start springing up "real soon now" and to be able to do most everything an iPad can do plus have Flash. Keep in mind that deciding to go closed was what doomed the original Mac to also-ran status for twenty some years.
- rimantas 17y ago
  and starts eating Apple's lunch Take a better look whose lunch Android eats (hint: it starts with "S"). And Windows Phone 7? Is it out already? By the way, 2010 - 2007 is three years, not two.
- reitzensteinm 17y ago
  Flash games will be crazy slow on a 1ghz A4 without hardware acceleration. You're talking about pushing software rendering AND an interpreted language on to a 1ghz ARM core, without the benefit of the crazy amounts of cache, high IPC and hand tuned MMX rendering that you'll find on Flash on x86. Definitely none of my games would be playable (see http://www.rocksolidarcade.com http://www.rocksolidarcade.com). They're 800x600 and quite detailed, but very well optimized, so they'd probably be in about the middle in terms of requirements of something that you'd find on Kongregate or Miniclip. And iPhone users are not exactly starved for games. If anything, too many games are being released for it. Flash video, maybe... but I think it's clear by now that the iXyz platform is not going away and I'd be surprised if every major video site didn't have a seamless solution in a year or two, including porn.
  - reitzensteinm 17y ago
    I should also add that I have a vested interest in this - after being forced to put up with perhaps the most horrible popular modern environment to develop games under, anything that threatens the Flash platform makes me very happy. So maybe I'm seeing the decision through rose tinted glasses.
    - gte910h 17y ago
      On Next Monday flash that compiles to native iPhone code will be released in Flash CS5....http://cs5launch.adobe.com/ http://cs5launch.adobe.com/
      - steveklabnik 17y ago
        Yeah, but building your own widgets is suicide. It'll be good for games, not much else.
        gte910h 17y ago
        Why do you assume you'll have to build your own widgets?
        steveklabnik 17y ago
        Unless something has changed since the initial announcement, you cannot use the built-in widgets. It translates the flash directly.
        gte910h 17y ago
        Right, but why do you assume you'll have to make your own widgets? That the API will come with none. That'd be an odd decision for adobe to make.
        steveklabnik 17y ago
- gte910h 17y ago
  I really really wish your comment was reality. I think Apple's intentional hobbling of their platform in many ways is annoying, horrible and otherwise bad. However, android has HUGE issues still. They don't have a single platform, they have 4 (android 1.5, 1.6, 2.0 and 2.1) so developers have no way to hit everyone. They don't have a sound library worth a crap, their video player isn't much better, and they don't have a viable in app purchase model (although they have something good enough that it will prevent them from really making a real in app purchase API a la Apple). For people who haven't happened to sign up for a google checkout account at some time in the past, you don't even SEE paid apps in the store (and there is nothing prompting you anywhere about that fact). Flash, the version most sites use on the web, vastly trails in release time for android phones, then trails even more for the carriers to update the phones with it. For instance: http://phandroid.com/2010/02/27/what-android-phones-will-get-flash-10-1/ http://phandroid.com/2010/02/27/what-android-phones-will-get... I'd really love for your version of events to be true, but it isn't yet. --- Developer for both platforms
- ErrantX 17y ago
  The Farmville segment is already well covered by a billion odd native games. Porn will adapt and already is doing so; HTML5 is going to be a better alternative to Flash so they will convert eventually. But more importantly; people don't buy a phone based on it's ability to browse porn sites :) (honestly; I know this is a tired argument but I dont notice not having flash on my iPhone. So much so I now only have one PC left with flash installed "just in case")
Hagelin 17y ago
If only the Apple could provide the same wonderful Flash experience engadget had on the JooJoo... http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/05/fusion-garage-joojoo-review/ http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/05/fusion-garage-joojoo-revi...
rimantas 17y ago
Horrible rant. Author also has this in comments: Without Flash, how would content owners monetize their content? Most of the advertising in this world is Flash banners. Google AdWords?
- roc 17y ago
  Or release an App. Or release content as a book. Or sign on with any of the mobile ad providers. ...
swombat 17y ago
I Hate People Who Type Their Headlines Like This. It Makes Them Really Annoying To Read. Please Feel Free To Edit Such Monstrosities Into A More Pleasing Format. Like this, for example, which is so much less annoying.
ErrantX 17y ago
For all the rights and wrongs of the Flash/No Flash argument this author doesn;t appear to understand any of the technical issues with Flash on the iPad/iPhone. Indeed the article's headline suggests he has identified problems with Apple's argument - but I can't see any in the text. Next.
- illumin8 17y ago
  Agreed, he doesn't even mention the #1 technical problem that Adobe is trying to solve in Flash Player 10.1, which is still in beta and not in a publicly usable format: CPU usage. If he can't even acknowledge that Flash 10, in it's current production form, requires excessive CPU utilization which would drain the iPad's battery too quickly, he doesn't deserve a read. This whole article is just another business type that doesn't "get it", expecting Apple to support some feature to prop up his dying media company.
  - ghshephard 17y ago
    Completely agree with you - The number of times a day my Fans scream up to full pitch on my Macintosh has basically dropped to 0 since I installed the Click-to-Flash plugin. I, for one, appreciate having an iPad that is still at 50% Plus battery life at the end of a 10 hour day. (I'm not watching Video NonStop) There were certainly ways that Apple could have brought Flash onto the iPad, but, the author has to acknowledge that two valid reasons _not_ to do it today were: o Flash is Buggy - used to crash my browser/freeze it up all the time. o Flash is a Battery Killer/CPU Hog. Apple could have _worked_ with adobe to fix these problems, but the author needed to recognize they are very real problems with flash today if he wants to have any credibility.
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]

15 points by yumraj 17y ago

Apple is taking a surprisingly risky gamble by telling the Farmville and Internet porn addicts to get lost. Though I technically agree that Flash is a buggy platform, I'm surprised Apple thinks they have enough clout to kill it by ignoring it. Google is taking the appropriate route by cozying up with Adobe on Android and Chrome/ChromeOS. My prediction is that the tablet scene will play out exactly like the smartphones have. The iPhone was groundbreaking and set the bar for interface and performance. Two years later everyone else shows up with polished products (Android 2, Windows Phone 7, etc.) and starts eating Apple's lunch (http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/03/iphone-os-still-dominates-mobile-web-android-on-the-way-up.ars http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/03/iphone-os-still-do...). Expect the Android or Chromium based tablets to start springing up "real soon now" and to be able to do most everything an iPad can do plus have Flash. Keep in mind that deciding to go closed was what doomed the original Mac to also-ran status for twenty some years.

rimantas 17y ago
and starts eating Apple's lunch Take a better look whose lunch Android eats (hint: it starts with "S"). And Windows Phone 7? Is it out already? By the way, 2010 - 2007 is three years, not two.
reitzensteinm 17y ago
Flash games will be crazy slow on a 1ghz A4 without hardware acceleration. You're talking about pushing software rendering AND an interpreted language on to a 1ghz ARM core, without the benefit of the crazy amounts of cache, high IPC and hand tuned MMX rendering that you'll find on Flash on x86. Definitely none of my games would be playable (see http://www.rocksolidarcade.com http://www.rocksolidarcade.com). They're 800x600 and quite detailed, but very well optimized, so they'd probably be in about the middle in terms of requirements of something that you'd find on Kongregate or Miniclip. And iPhone users are not exactly starved for games. If anything, too many games are being released for it. Flash video, maybe... but I think it's clear by now that the iXyz platform is not going away and I'd be surprised if every major video site didn't have a seamless solution in a year or two, including porn.
- reitzensteinm 17y ago
  I should also add that I have a vested interest in this - after being forced to put up with perhaps the most horrible popular modern environment to develop games under, anything that threatens the Flash platform makes me very happy. So maybe I'm seeing the decision through rose tinted glasses.
  - gte910h 17y ago
    On Next Monday flash that compiles to native iPhone code will be released in Flash CS5....http://cs5launch.adobe.com/ http://cs5launch.adobe.com/
    - steveklabnik 17y ago
      Yeah, but building your own widgets is suicide. It'll be good for games, not much else.
      - gte910h 17y ago
        Why do you assume you'll have to build your own widgets?
        steveklabnik 17y ago
        Unless something has changed since the initial announcement, you cannot use the built-in widgets. It translates the flash directly.
        gte910h 17y ago
        Right, but why do you assume you'll have to make your own widgets? That the API will come with none. That'd be an odd decision for adobe to make.
        steveklabnik 17y ago
gte910h 17y ago
I really really wish your comment was reality. I think Apple's intentional hobbling of their platform in many ways is annoying, horrible and otherwise bad. However, android has HUGE issues still. They don't have a single platform, they have 4 (android 1.5, 1.6, 2.0 and 2.1) so developers have no way to hit everyone. They don't have a sound library worth a crap, their video player isn't much better, and they don't have a viable in app purchase model (although they have something good enough that it will prevent them from really making a real in app purchase API a la Apple). For people who haven't happened to sign up for a google checkout account at some time in the past, you don't even SEE paid apps in the store (and there is nothing prompting you anywhere about that fact). Flash, the version most sites use on the web, vastly trails in release time for android phones, then trails even more for the carriers to update the phones with it. For instance: http://phandroid.com/2010/02/27/what-android-phones-will-get-flash-10-1/ http://phandroid.com/2010/02/27/what-android-phones-will-get... I'd really love for your version of events to be true, but it isn't yet. --- Developer for both platforms
ErrantX 17y ago
The Farmville segment is already well covered by a billion odd native games. Porn will adapt and already is doing so; HTML5 is going to be a better alternative to Flash so they will convert eventually. But more importantly; people don't buy a phone based on it's ability to browse porn sites :) (honestly; I know this is a tired argument but I dont notice not having flash on my iPhone. So much so I now only have one PC left with flash installed "just in case")

Hagelin 17y ago

If only the Apple could provide the same wonderful Flash experience engadget had on the JooJoo... http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/05/fusion-garage-joojoo-review/ http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/05/fusion-garage-joojoo-revi...

rimantas 17y ago

Horrible rant. Author also has this in comments: Without Flash, how would content owners monetize their content? Most of the advertising in this world is Flash banners. Google AdWords?

roc 17y ago
Or release an App. Or release content as a book. Or sign on with any of the mobile ad providers. ...

swombat 17y ago

I Hate People Who Type Their Headlines Like This. It Makes Them Really Annoying To Read. Please Feel Free To Edit Such Monstrosities Into A More Pleasing Format. Like this, for example, which is so much less annoying.

ErrantX 17y ago

For all the rights and wrongs of the Flash/No Flash argument this author doesn;t appear to understand any of the technical issues with Flash on the iPad/iPhone. Indeed the article's headline suggests he has identified problems with Apple's argument - but I can't see any in the text. Next.

illumin8 17y ago
Agreed, he doesn't even mention the #1 technical problem that Adobe is trying to solve in Flash Player 10.1, which is still in beta and not in a publicly usable format: CPU usage. If he can't even acknowledge that Flash 10, in it's current production form, requires excessive CPU utilization which would drain the iPad's battery too quickly, he doesn't deserve a read. This whole article is just another business type that doesn't "get it", expecting Apple to support some feature to prop up his dying media company.
- ghshephard 17y ago
  Completely agree with you - The number of times a day my Fans scream up to full pitch on my Macintosh has basically dropped to 0 since I installed the Click-to-Flash plugin. I, for one, appreciate having an iPad that is still at 50% Plus battery life at the end of a 10 hour day. (I'm not watching Video NonStop) There were certainly ways that Apple could have brought Flash onto the iPad, but, the author has to acknowledge that two valid reasons _not_ to do it today were: o Flash is Buggy - used to crash my browser/freeze it up all the time. o Flash is a Battery Killer/CPU Hog. Apple could have _worked_ with adobe to fix these problems, but the author needed to recognize they are very real problems with flash today if he wants to have any credibility.

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]