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As More Devices Board Planes, Travelers Are Playing with Fire
- anotheryou 10y agoWhat about a laptop sized ashtray / metal bin with a loose lid and some small opening for a fire extinguisher? In the first two minutes it should already be noticed and still be scoopable. Well, unless it's still in a bag. How well do fire extinguishing blankets work in the cluttered cabin? What is currently the protocol?
- saintwind 10y agoIf it ain't broke, don't fix it; printed novels don't contain lithium ion batteries. Read on a flight, save a life!
- anotheryou 10y agoor to be more modest: a capacity limit so you can take your phone, but not your tablet.
- ghaff 10y agoAnd, yet, a number of airlines (such as United) are introducing entertainment systems whereby they stream content to your own device. More fundamentally, do you suggest that people travel without tablets or laptops? Never going to happen. And it's better to have the batteries in the cabin than in the hold.
- icebraining 10y agoit's better to have the batteries in the cabin than in the hold. Why? Seems like you could have more effective fire-extinguishing methods in the hold (replacing oxygen with an inert gas, for example).
- aembleton 10y agoI don't think the hold is pressurised, and so there would be very little oxygen there.
- anotheryou 10y agoWhere do pet crates go? I think it might be.
- ghaff 10y agoCargo holds are typically pressurized. Pressurizing forward of the aft pressure bulkhead doesn't really add significantly to the structural requirements of an aircraft as I understand it. Furthermore (in addition to pets) you'd probably see lots of leaking and otherwise damaged contents of luggage/cargo if the hold were unpressurized.
- wiredfool 10y agoMore than that, the most efficient pressure vessel is a circular section (tension only). Making the floor of the passenger cabin the pressure vessel would be very heavy, as it would have to carry the load in bending.
- kwhitefoot 10y agoOf course it is pressurized. If it were not shampoo and toothpaste would leak out of their containers.
- cr1895 10y agoPresumably the reaction to an in-cabin fire will be quicker than to that of a fire in the hold. Do these batteries provide their own oxidizer somehow (in that would flooding the hold with CO2 or something actually extinguish one on fire)? I don't know how fire protection currently is within an airplane hold but surely this is a solveable problem. Maybe airlines are asking that people not put these batteries in the hold is because fire protection systems haven't yet been adapted to this risk.
- anotheryou 10y agoYou could put all batteries in protective bags if really needed. http://alexnld.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/SKU154973-2.jpg http://alexnld.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/SKU154973-2.jp...
- witty_username 10y agoAll batteries have protection against overheating and fire. The chance of a battery becoming on fire is very very small.
- lmm 10y agoPrinted novels dry out my fingers, are exceedingly heavy (even one weighs twice as much as 1000+ ebooks, and we're talking about flying which has weight limits), inaccessible for many readers (no audio narration, large-print editions have to be bought separately and are even heavier), hard to read in the dark...
- andrewclunn 10y agoI'll just leave this here: https://youtu.be/eHooBjxmoXQ https://youtu.be/eHooBjxmoXQ
- alfiedotwtf 10y agoI think the biggest elephant in the room is that you're allowed to bring (as hand carry) 3 liters of liquid fuel in glass containers on international flights... as long as you purchased said flammable liquid in a duty free store
- ghshephard 10y agoCan you purchase overproof liquor in the duty free store?
- alfiedotwtf 10y agoI looked for 151 but couldn't find it at the airport duty free store. I'm sure it's available at external duty free stores though :(
- Texasian 10y agoIn the US, at least, you aren't allowed to carry any liquid (besides non-essential medications, baby formula) in containers larger than 3oz through security regardless of if its duty free. I had no idea that duty free stores existed outside of airports, to be honest.
- kwhitefoot 10y agoDepending on what you mean by overproof the answer is yes sometimes in some places.
- ghshephard 10y agoSoft definition of overproof - "Any alcohol that can be easily ignited and turned into an violent explosive."
- x1798DE 10y agoDon't they sort of "gate check" duty free purchases and you pick them up at the destination?
- FabHK 10y agoThe Aviation Herald lists a few incidences with batteries: http://avherald.com/h?search_term=batter&opt=0&dosearch=1&search.x=0&search.y=0 http://avherald.com/h?search_term=batter&opt=0&dosearch=1&se... (as I mentioned in the thread "FAA Urges Passengers to Not Use Samsung Galaxy Note 7 on Planes", https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12459335 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12459335 )
- kawsper 10y agoRC enthusiasts use LiPo batteries, which can cause a lot of damage if mishandled and damaged, you can see a video here where a famous quadcopter pilot shows how many batteries he carries for a day of flying [0]. These batteries go into your carry-on luggage and needs to be protected from damage and short circuit. Some info on why batteries shouldn't be in the cargo hold "Halon 1301, the suppression agent found in Class C cargo compartments, is ineffective in controlling a lithium metal cell fire." [1] Here is the FAA requirements: - LiPo batteries installed in a device are ok in either checked or carry-on luggage. - An unlimited number of spare (uninstalled) LiPo batteries with a rating of up to 100 WHr may be carried, but only in carry-on baggage. - With airline approval, up to 2 LiPo batteries with ratings between 100 and 160 WHr may be carried, but only in carry-on luggage. - LiPo batteries larger than 160 WHr are not allowed. It seems really strange you can travel with these things, I can't imagine the damage that will happen if a bag of batteries happens to blow up. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCtneglrE8I&t=278 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCtneglrE8I&t=278 [1] http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/airline_operators/airline_safety/safo/all_safos/media/2010/safo10017.pdf http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/airline_ope...
- snovv_crash 10y agoJust FYI, LiPo batteries aren't lithium-metal, they are lithium-ion. They have different failure mechanisms. The fire in a LiPo is cause by the electrolyte being too hot due to an internal short-circuit and thus igniting, not because lithium is reacting with water as a lithium-metal battery does. LiPo is thus safer than lithium-metal, since a leak to the environment doesn't necessarily result in a fire. Even safer are LiFePO4, which are as safe as NiMh, although their energy density is slightly lower than LiPo. Lithium-metal is mostly used for coin cells, eg for watches.
- mizchief2 10y agoWe also use Fire-proof bags when charging the batteries and I personally transport mine in a sealed metal ammo can. Any batteries not directly being used in a device should only be transportable if in a lipo-safe bag.
- rebootthesystem 10y ago
- smpetrey 10y agoBack in college I worked as a iOS and Mac technician at a Apple Store Genius Bar. First couple of months working there I noticed we had a yellow safe under our bench. My supervisors informed me the safe was for swollen batteries, hot iPhones or anything that could explode or catch fire. Needless to say I only ever experienced one dangerously swollen battery on a MacBook. Food for thought.
- Raphmedia 10y agoI recently bought a Macbook Air that had a battery so swollen that the entire laptop was convex and the lit couldn't even close. I'm talking a two inch bulge. What's amazing is that nothing broke and changing the battery allowed the aluminium to bend back and you can't even tell that the laptop looked like that. The person that had it before me was actually using the laptop with the swollen battery until it got so bad some of the keys were getting pressed from under. That person could have easily used the laptop in question in a plane.
- smpetrey 10y agoBack in college I worked as a iOS and Mac technician at the Apple Store Genius Bar. First couple of months working there I noticed we had a yellow safe under our bench. My supervisors informed me the safe was for swollen batteries, hit iPhones or anything that could explode or catch fire. Needless to say I only ever experienced one dangerously swollen battery on a MacBook. Food for thought.
- paulhart 10y agoThe NYT article is (slightly) out of date - the carrier I was flying with last night made a point of stating the Samsung Galaxy Note 7 could not be used at any time during the flight.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- alistairSH 10y agoWe received the same warning on both outbound and return legs of an Aer Lingus flight from IAD to EDI. Not sure how they would ever enforce it, beyond the honor system, or expecting other passengers to notice and report misuse.
- leetrout 10y agoI don't think that's a fair test if that photo is accurate. Those seats are not setup in a normal "cattle car" configuration. That looks like a luxurious 40+ inches of seat pitch compared to the normal 30. I would expect there to be the potential for a much faster spreading fire with a realistic seating configuration.
- brudgers 10y agoIn all probability, there are stringent requirements for flame spread, smoke developed, and the creation of toxic gasses for airline seats similar to those discussed for passenger trains here: http://www.compositesworld.com/articles/passenger-safety-flame-smoke-toxicity-control http://www.compositesworld.com/articles/passenger-safety-fla...