7 ms·

Inside the World of International Medieval Combat

100 points by MichaelAO 10y ago

marmot777 10y ago
Your post ironically will probably draw more people to this activity. Their choice of course. It seems a bit nuts to me but then again I used to climb mountains every now and again. That might seem nuts to some people.
thought_alarm 10y ago
> Hardcore YESSS! > International WOOO! > Medieval What? > Combat Uh...
rcarmo 10y ago
Loved the photo caption: "We’ve got a lot of people who work in IT; they’ve obviously got a lot of anger to work out."
- lostboys67 10y ago
  Lol reminds me of the Charlie Bradbury (Felicia Day) in supernatural - there is one episode set around a LARP
cup 10y ago
>I overhear one particularly worrying account from a fighter talking about receiving a head blow from a pole axe: “My right vision completely went; there were sparkly lights and stuff. I spent a week in a brain-fog haze, walking around like a zombie.” This sport sounds like a great way to earn a concussion and acquired brain injury.
- ygra 10y ago
  Like plenty of other violent sports. No shortage there.
gvurrdon 10y ago
It's certainly an activity that requires a lot of fitness; sparring/bouting without all that armour on is tiring enough for me. But, I hear from mediaeval HEMAists that it's not really quite the same as mediaeval combat in that thrusting into the gaps of the armour has been replaced (for obvious safety reasons) with bludgeoning and that it is not based on any particular historical systems. I wouldn't know, not specialising in that period myself.
- ghaff 10y ago
  Pretty much any fighting style (armored or otherwise) that's adapted to not actually maim or kill (or at least carry a significant risk of doing so) is probably going to look quite a bit different from the "real thing." See, for example, discussions about which fighting/martial arts styles are closest to no-holds-barred street fighting.
  - gvurrdon 10y ago
    Not necessarily "quite a bit" different; various HEMA forms seem to have done quite a good job of reproducing combative styles very well, within their limitations. Of course, this requires rules sets which are designed primarily towards the goal of producing sword bouts which look like a fight with sharps, and participants who are keen to achieve the same effect. When those conditions are not met then the fight will indeed diverge from the techniques and tactics of the "real thing". Modern fencing is an excellent example of this - it's a fine sport requiring great skill and stamina but it does not resemble fighting with sharps. There are many HEMAists who will avoid tournaments out of a concern for the effects that competitive rules sets and the pressure to win may have upon their art, and there are others who don't mind. It is a topic of constant debate within the community. As usual, this is relevant: http://nononsenseselfdefense.com/four_focuses.html http://nononsenseselfdefense.com/four_focuses.html
    - Retric 10y ago
      I strongly disagree with that link. Training for combat is more than just a few simple brutal takedowns. Understanding and implementing minimal force is a vary real and important skill set. Further many people study sports and get a completely biased understanding of fighting. This can be dangerous for them, but also anyone else they take a swing at while not wearing pads. People spend years learning a mix of the useless and horrifically dangerous. They then ingrane twitch reflexes to do something often with little thought as to what it actually does in a real world context.
dghf 10y ago
> More GBH than LARP, it substitutes foam weaponry for real steel and scripted acting for unpredictable scuffling This sentence confused me deeply, given it contradicts the rest of the article, until I realised they meant to say "it substitutes real steel for foam weaponry and unpredictable scuffling for scripted acting". Or, if you prefer, "it substitutes foam weaponry with real steel and scripted acting with unpredictable scuffling". You substitute new for old, and old with new (but in the latter case you may as well say "replace").
mattkevan 10y ago
Battle of the Nations have held the UK national tournament in our local park for the last couple of years. My wife and I went to watch the first year, thinking it would be a quaint medieval reenactment thing. It wasn't. A few minutes into the first bout we realised they were dead serious and properly going for each other. It was a lot of fun, but there was definitely an odd feeling of 'how much should I be enjoying this?' as it was so violent. Basically two people in full armour beating the crap out of each other with a heavy metal bar and a big wooden plank. A fun day out for all the family.
- scotty79 10y ago
  Team fights are even better. There's better dynamic and tactic to observe.
  - morley 10y ago
    I found this video of a team fight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjJT-8bY6x4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjJT-8bY6x4
- lloeki 10y ago
  > properly going for each other Some all-out kendo fights / training are downright frightening in that regard. Many blows would be maiming (some even lethal) were it not for the protective gear.
- DanBC 10y ago
  People have similar reactions to the Gloucestershire cheese rolling. "How fun!" they think. Then they see people hurling themselves down a really steep hill and realise that it's not so quaint. Most people aren't running, they're falling, and they have little control over those falls. Often multiple people end up with broken arms or legs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4n8KkOpqkY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4n8KkOpqkY
dre85 10y ago
I have a friend who does this and I went to watch one of their events. He says he only does 1-on-1 fights for safety reasons and I can understand why. At least you always have your opponent in front of you in this case. The group fights are super fast and dynamic and the biggest strategy is basically covering distance quickly, teaming up on people, and tackling from behind. They're less about weapons and more about American football-style tackles from the side/back while the opponent is busy sword fighting with your team mate. The armour is also so padded and thick that ordinary weapons like swords are really more for just point fighting. Two handed weapons definitely do more damage. Also, getting jabbed in the face with the edge of a wooden shield looks pretty serious, not to mention quick and unexpected! Watching their event was super exciting, but at the same time there's a looming feeling that someone will get seriously hurt at any second.
kefka 10y ago
Yeah, "Reenactment is for pussies", eh? I'm part of the SCA. I've done fencing (heavy rapier) and some heavy. Yes, the heavies use rattan (wood) for their weapons. That's because we like our fighters to live afterwards, and be relatively uninjured. Have injuries happened? Yep. Have deaths happened? Yep. But the SCA's policies on fighting are battle-tested, over melees of thousands of fighters. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrueFTheV-Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrueFTheV-Y This article is just 'Not Even Wrong'(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong) - There's ways to do mostly safe fighting, and ways to be a douchebag that can end up breaking bones and killing people. This is certainly the latter.
- marcus_holmes 10y ago
  I've fought both European re-enactment and SCA, and they're both totally different styles, and both about as safe as each other. I wouldn't say the SCA method is the only safe way of doing this. But I don't think they're too worried about safety anyway. Re-enactment (in Europe anyway, I can't speak about US or Japanese re-enactment) has always has two sides: The desire to recreate historical costume and practices vs The desire to get drunk in a castle with your mates and have a damn good fight As re-enactment spread east through Europe from the UK, the latter tendency became more pronounced. The Russians and Poles get a real reputation in the European scene for fighting dirty, hitting hard and not taking their shots. This sport developed from that. Their gear is almost completely unrelated to what was actually used in the time period they say they portray, and safety takes a back seat to "not being a pussy". I suspect the rules around drinking are more lax than you'd expect from a conventional re-enactment society too. They're all about the "beer and bash". I expect that there'll be a few more splits as they evolve, with the safety-conscious moving to a more toned-down style while the real nutters keep the rules rough and accumulate scar tissue.
- KingMob 10y ago
  Seriously. "...a fast-growing sport that began in Eastern Europe about five years ago..." Even a cursory background check would reveal that the SCA was started in the late 60's and predates these other organizations by decades.
JabavuAdams 10y ago
Part of me is like yes, yes, yes, do it. And then I realise that I already have chronic knee, shoulder, and brain injuries.

100 points by MichaelAO 10y ago

Your post ironically will probably draw more people to this activity. Their choice of course. It seems a bit nuts to me but then again I used to climb mountains every now and again. That might seem nuts to some people.

thought_alarm 10y ago

> Hardcore YESSS! > International WOOO! > Medieval What? > Combat Uh...

rcarmo 10y ago

Loved the photo caption: "We’ve got a lot of people who work in IT; they’ve obviously got a lot of anger to work out."

lostboys67 10y ago
Lol reminds me of the Charlie Bradbury (Felicia Day) in supernatural - there is one episode set around a LARP

cup 10y ago

>I overhear one particularly worrying account from a fighter talking about receiving a head blow from a pole axe: “My right vision completely went; there were sparkly lights and stuff. I spent a week in a brain-fog haze, walking around like a zombie.” This sport sounds like a great way to earn a concussion and acquired brain injury.

ygra 10y ago
Like plenty of other violent sports. No shortage there.

gvurrdon 10y ago

It's certainly an activity that requires a lot of fitness; sparring/bouting without all that armour on is tiring enough for me. But, I hear from mediaeval HEMAists that it's not really quite the same as mediaeval combat in that thrusting into the gaps of the armour has been replaced (for obvious safety reasons) with bludgeoning and that it is not based on any particular historical systems. I wouldn't know, not specialising in that period myself.

ghaff 10y ago
Pretty much any fighting style (armored or otherwise) that's adapted to not actually maim or kill (or at least carry a significant risk of doing so) is probably going to look quite a bit different from the "real thing." See, for example, discussions about which fighting/martial arts styles are closest to no-holds-barred street fighting.
- gvurrdon 10y ago
  Not necessarily "quite a bit" different; various HEMA forms seem to have done quite a good job of reproducing combative styles very well, within their limitations. Of course, this requires rules sets which are designed primarily towards the goal of producing sword bouts which look like a fight with sharps, and participants who are keen to achieve the same effect. When those conditions are not met then the fight will indeed diverge from the techniques and tactics of the "real thing". Modern fencing is an excellent example of this - it's a fine sport requiring great skill and stamina but it does not resemble fighting with sharps. There are many HEMAists who will avoid tournaments out of a concern for the effects that competitive rules sets and the pressure to win may have upon their art, and there are others who don't mind. It is a topic of constant debate within the community. As usual, this is relevant: http://nononsenseselfdefense.com/four_focuses.html http://nononsenseselfdefense.com/four_focuses.html
  - Retric 10y ago
    I strongly disagree with that link. Training for combat is more than just a few simple brutal takedowns. Understanding and implementing minimal force is a vary real and important skill set. Further many people study sports and get a completely biased understanding of fighting. This can be dangerous for them, but also anyone else they take a swing at while not wearing pads. People spend years learning a mix of the useless and horrifically dangerous. They then ingrane twitch reflexes to do something often with little thought as to what it actually does in a real world context.

dghf 10y ago

> More GBH than LARP, it substitutes foam weaponry for real steel and scripted acting for unpredictable scuffling This sentence confused me deeply, given it contradicts the rest of the article, until I realised they meant to say "it substitutes real steel for foam weaponry and unpredictable scuffling for scripted acting". Or, if you prefer, "it substitutes foam weaponry with real steel and scripted acting with unpredictable scuffling". You substitute new for old, and old with new (but in the latter case you may as well say "replace").

mattkevan 10y ago

Battle of the Nations have held the UK national tournament in our local park for the last couple of years. My wife and I went to watch the first year, thinking it would be a quaint medieval reenactment thing. It wasn't. A few minutes into the first bout we realised they were dead serious and properly going for each other. It was a lot of fun, but there was definitely an odd feeling of 'how much should I be enjoying this?' as it was so violent. Basically two people in full armour beating the crap out of each other with a heavy metal bar and a big wooden plank. A fun day out for all the family.

scotty79 10y ago
Team fights are even better. There's better dynamic and tactic to observe.
- morley 10y ago
  I found this video of a team fight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjJT-8bY6x4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjJT-8bY6x4
lloeki 10y ago
> properly going for each other Some all-out kendo fights / training are downright frightening in that regard. Many blows would be maiming (some even lethal) were it not for the protective gear.
DanBC 10y ago
People have similar reactions to the Gloucestershire cheese rolling. "How fun!" they think. Then they see people hurling themselves down a really steep hill and realise that it's not so quaint. Most people aren't running, they're falling, and they have little control over those falls. Often multiple people end up with broken arms or legs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4n8KkOpqkY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4n8KkOpqkY

dre85 10y ago

I have a friend who does this and I went to watch one of their events. He says he only does 1-on-1 fights for safety reasons and I can understand why. At least you always have your opponent in front of you in this case. The group fights are super fast and dynamic and the biggest strategy is basically covering distance quickly, teaming up on people, and tackling from behind. They're less about weapons and more about American football-style tackles from the side/back while the opponent is busy sword fighting with your team mate. The armour is also so padded and thick that ordinary weapons like swords are really more for just point fighting. Two handed weapons definitely do more damage. Also, getting jabbed in the face with the edge of a wooden shield looks pretty serious, not to mention quick and unexpected! Watching their event was super exciting, but at the same time there's a looming feeling that someone will get seriously hurt at any second.

kefka 10y ago

Yeah, "Reenactment is for pussies", eh? I'm part of the SCA. I've done fencing (heavy rapier) and some heavy. Yes, the heavies use rattan (wood) for their weapons. That's because we like our fighters to live afterwards, and be relatively uninjured. Have injuries happened? Yep. Have deaths happened? Yep. But the SCA's policies on fighting are battle-tested, over melees of thousands of fighters. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrueFTheV-Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrueFTheV-Y This article is just 'Not Even Wrong'(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong) - There's ways to do mostly safe fighting, and ways to be a douchebag that can end up breaking bones and killing people. This is certainly the latter.

marcus_holmes 10y ago
I've fought both European re-enactment and SCA, and they're both totally different styles, and both about as safe as each other. I wouldn't say the SCA method is the only safe way of doing this. But I don't think they're too worried about safety anyway. Re-enactment (in Europe anyway, I can't speak about US or Japanese re-enactment) has always has two sides: The desire to recreate historical costume and practices vs The desire to get drunk in a castle with your mates and have a damn good fight As re-enactment spread east through Europe from the UK, the latter tendency became more pronounced. The Russians and Poles get a real reputation in the European scene for fighting dirty, hitting hard and not taking their shots. This sport developed from that. Their gear is almost completely unrelated to what was actually used in the time period they say they portray, and safety takes a back seat to "not being a pussy". I suspect the rules around drinking are more lax than you'd expect from a conventional re-enactment society too. They're all about the "beer and bash". I expect that there'll be a few more splits as they evolve, with the safety-conscious moving to a more toned-down style while the real nutters keep the rules rough and accumulate scar tissue.
KingMob 10y ago
Seriously. "...a fast-growing sport that began in Eastern Europe about five years ago..." Even a cursory background check would reveal that the SCA was started in the late 60's and predates these other organizations by decades.

JabavuAdams 10y ago

Part of me is like yes, yes, yes, do it. And then I realise that I already have chronic knee, shoulder, and brain injuries.