7 ms·

That's extremely hard to believe given that 9/11 was most likely paid for by official Saudi money and that it is well known that they have exported tons of peop

by tomjen3 10y ago

That's extremely hard to believe given that 9/11 was most likely paid for by official Saudi money and that it is well known that they have exported tons of people to Syria and Isis

travmatt 10y ago
I disagree with the supposition 9/11 was proven to be a state sponsored attack, showing that individuals inside the Saudi government funneled money to terrorism isn't equivalent to saying that Saudi government planned the attack. You're ignoring the main thrust of my argument, that the Iranian government is dominated by religious extremists who sincerely believe it is their religious duty to spread their theocratic revolution across the world. To this end the Iranian government has been closely involved in cultivating religious terrorism across the world for decades. You say that people expelled from Saudi Arabia end up in IS, this claim pales in comparison to the training, logistical support and technical expertise Iran directs to groups it helped create like Hamas and hezbollah. When american soldiers are killed by an IED in Iraq, it is most likely Iranian special forces that taught those terrorists how to make the IED, supplied the materials for it, and work closely with said groups to track their lethality and suggest improvements. They've literally dedicated engineers to inventing new IEDs to help penetrate American personnel carriers and kill more American troops. Again, the difference here is everything I just said is the Iranian government formally coordinating with terrorists across the world in order to improve their lethality, not some rogue faction.
- fit2rule 10y ago
  > the Iranian government is dominated by religious extremists who sincerely believe it is their religious duty to spread their theocratic revolution across the world. The same is true of the USA. Whether you agree with them or not is highly dependent on whether you stand to be a beneficiary of the spoils of their wars, or not. And, btw, the CIA has exported far, far more terror than the IRG ever has.
  - travmatt 10y ago
    I personally find the subject-changing 'what-aboutism'of Chomsky-ists tiring and repitive, but I'll bite. Iran is currently the largest exporter of religiously inspired extremism, bar none. They are not engaged in short-term realpolitik that installs favorable governments in previously unfavorable countries. The IRG and Quds forces are true believers who see it as their duty to cultivate religious extremism across the world, and have been practicing their trade for the past several _decades_. There is no other country in the world that has been as deeply committed at all levels of government to fomenting sectarian violence throughout the world for nearly as long, and this is why Iran has such a powerful sphere of influence. These groups see the success of clients like Hamas and Hezbollah as their crowning achievements, and have been actively cultivating similar groups for the past several decades. Again, the indisputable fact that I keep harping on is that Iran is the largest exporter of religiously inspired violence, bar none. If the same was true of Saudi Arabia there is no doubt western liberals would have no problem publicly flagellating themselves, but since America is currently hostile towards Iran there are inevitably 'what-abouters' who will pop up and defend the propagation of violent interpretations of Shia ideology. If you would like to contradict this fact, you could probably start by naming the US forces that Christian theology using torture, bombings, and creation of fundamentalist Christian terror groups. Until then, Iran is the largest exporter of religiously inspired violence, bar none.
    - fit2rule 10y ago
      >There is no other country in the world that has been as deeply committed at all levels of government to fomenting sectarian violence throughout the world for nearly as long The USA is just as guilty of this as any other nation. You're just not as willing to see it, since it doesn't fit your anti-Islam, pro-Christian narrative.
      - dragonwriter 10y ago
        I don't even see how an "anti-Islam, pro-Christian" bias justifies the mistake here; the US government is, historically pretty high on the list of nations fomenting specifically Islamic sectarian violence. The motivation for doing so may be geopolitical rather than religious on the part of decisionmakers, but then, that's hardly unique among nations fomenting sectarian violence, Islamic or otherwise.

by tomjen3 10y ago

That's extremely hard to believe given that 9/11 was most likely paid for by official Saudi money and that it is well known that they have exported tons of people to Syria and Isis

travmatt 10y ago

I disagree with the supposition 9/11 was proven to be a state sponsored attack, showing that individuals inside the Saudi government funneled money to terrorism isn't equivalent to saying that Saudi government planned the attack. You're ignoring the main thrust of my argument, that the Iranian government is dominated by religious extremists who sincerely believe it is their religious duty to spread their theocratic revolution across the world. To this end the Iranian government has been closely involved in cultivating religious terrorism across the world for decades. You say that people expelled from Saudi Arabia end up in IS, this claim pales in comparison to the training, logistical support and technical expertise Iran directs to groups it helped create like Hamas and hezbollah. When american soldiers are killed by an IED in Iraq, it is most likely Iranian special forces that taught those terrorists how to make the IED, supplied the materials for it, and work closely with said groups to track their lethality and suggest improvements. They've literally dedicated engineers to inventing new IEDs to help penetrate American personnel carriers and kill more American troops. Again, the difference here is everything I just said is the Iranian government formally coordinating with terrorists across the world in order to improve their lethality, not some rogue faction.

fit2rule 10y ago
> the Iranian government is dominated by religious extremists who sincerely believe it is their religious duty to spread their theocratic revolution across the world. The same is true of the USA. Whether you agree with them or not is highly dependent on whether you stand to be a beneficiary of the spoils of their wars, or not. And, btw, the CIA has exported far, far more terror than the IRG ever has.
- travmatt 10y ago
  I personally find the subject-changing 'what-aboutism'of Chomsky-ists tiring and repitive, but I'll bite. Iran is currently the largest exporter of religiously inspired extremism, bar none. They are not engaged in short-term realpolitik that installs favorable governments in previously unfavorable countries. The IRG and Quds forces are true believers who see it as their duty to cultivate religious extremism across the world, and have been practicing their trade for the past several _decades_. There is no other country in the world that has been as deeply committed at all levels of government to fomenting sectarian violence throughout the world for nearly as long, and this is why Iran has such a powerful sphere of influence. These groups see the success of clients like Hamas and Hezbollah as their crowning achievements, and have been actively cultivating similar groups for the past several decades. Again, the indisputable fact that I keep harping on is that Iran is the largest exporter of religiously inspired violence, bar none. If the same was true of Saudi Arabia there is no doubt western liberals would have no problem publicly flagellating themselves, but since America is currently hostile towards Iran there are inevitably 'what-abouters' who will pop up and defend the propagation of violent interpretations of Shia ideology. If you would like to contradict this fact, you could probably start by naming the US forces that Christian theology using torture, bombings, and creation of fundamentalist Christian terror groups. Until then, Iran is the largest exporter of religiously inspired violence, bar none.
  - fit2rule 10y ago
    >There is no other country in the world that has been as deeply committed at all levels of government to fomenting sectarian violence throughout the world for nearly as long The USA is just as guilty of this as any other nation. You're just not as willing to see it, since it doesn't fit your anti-Islam, pro-Christian narrative.
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      I don't even see how an "anti-Islam, pro-Christian" bias justifies the mistake here; the US government is, historically pretty high on the list of nations fomenting specifically Islamic sectarian violence. The motivation for doing so may be geopolitical rather than religious on the part of decisionmakers, but then, that's hardly unique among nations fomenting sectarian violence, Islamic or otherwise.