6 ms·

Iran is also far better on Human rights than say Saudi Arabia, that the media, important political figures and companies [0] consistently tie 'enemy' and 'ally'

Iran is also far better on Human rights than say Saudi Arabia, that the media, important political figures and companies [0] consistently tie 'enemy' and 'ally' labels is such a complete farce. Edit (example): [0] https://www.palantir.com/2010/05/iranian-influences/ https://www.palantir.com/2010/05/iranian-influences/

ars 10y ago
If Iran would just stop verbally attacking Israel and Jews, and stop putting on holocaust denial shows it would be a lot easier to change the labels.
- coldtea 10y ago
  Well, if Israel also stops claiming its surrounding land.
  - aikah 10y ago
    > Well, if Israel also stops claiming its surrounding land. What land belonging to Iran does Israel occupy ? care to explain ? does that justify calls for the extermination of Israel and the Jews ? does that justify holocaust denial ?
    - fixxer 10y ago
      I believe "it" was a reference to Israel, not Iran. As in, expansion of Israel at cost to Palestinians, not Iranians.
    - davidf18 10y ago
      Ironically, it was the Cyrus the Great of the Persian Empire that was responsible for exiled Jews to return to Jerusalem and build the Second Temple: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Temple#Biblical_narrative https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Temple#Biblical_narrati...
  - fixxer 10y ago
    You're both right.
    - koytch 10y ago
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7RmcdHrYuk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7RmcdHrYuk
  - at-fates-hands 10y ago
    You're not very familiar with history are you? The whole idea was to establish the model for two states living peacefully and productively side by side. No one seems to remember that simultaneous with the Gaza withdrawal, Israel dismantled four smaller settlements in the northern West Bank as a clear signal of Israel's desire to leave the West Bank too and thus achieve an amicable two-state solution. And how did the Gaza Palestinians react to being granted by the Israelis what no previous ruler, neither Egyptian, nor British, nor Turkish, had ever given them – an independent territory? First, they demolished the greenhouses. Then they elected Hamas. Then, instead of building a state with its attendant political and economic institutions, they spent the better part of a decade turning Gaza into a massive military base, brimming with terror weapons, to make ceaseless war on Israel. Where are the roads and rail, the industry and infrastructure of the new Palestinian state? Nowhere. Instead, they built mile upon mile of underground tunnels to hide their weapons and, when the going gets tough, their military commanders. They spent millions importing and producing rockets, launchers, mortars, small arms, even drones. They deliberately placed them in schools, hospitals, mosques and private homes to better expose their own civilians. And from which they fire rockets at Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. source: http://www.aish.com/jw/me/The-Truth-about-Gaza.html http://www.aish.com/jw/me/The-Truth-about-Gaza.html To me it's pretty obvious the Jews just want to live in peace and have made concessions for years to do so, but Hamas wants nothing but an endless war. It's kind of hard to make peace, when the only thing your opponent is interested in is your total elimination. Like the Israeli prime minister said: "'Here's the difference between us," explains the Israeli prime minister. 'We're using missile defense to protect our civilians and they're using their civilians to protect their missiles.""
    - nyolfen 10y ago
      >To me it's pretty obvious the Jews just want to live in peace and have made concessions for years to do so http://www.thehypertexts.com/images/israel-palestine_map.jpg http://www.thehypertexts.com/images/israel-palestine_map.jpg >"'Here's the difference between us," explains the Israeli prime minister. 'We're using missile defense to protect our civilians and they're using their civilians to protect their missiles."" the former is perhaps more tenable when one doesn't live in the world's largest and densest open-air prison
- vkou 10y ago
  If Israel would stop physically attacking Palestinians, and stop running an apartheid state, this complaint would have some merit. Measuring every Middle Eastern geo-political question as "But how will this help Israel" is both short-sighted, and will lead you to support gross violations of human rights.
  - ank_the_elder 10y ago
    In no way is Israel an apartheid state (Israeli Muslims/Arabs have full citizenship on par with Jews) The lives lost are the making of the so-called Palestinians who have never wanted peace with Israelis and terrorist organisations like Hamas and the Iran-backed Hezbollah who just hates Jews and wants them to disappear - via any means necessary. Two small examples: the Embajada and the AMIA attacks in Argentina, both by Hezbollah, both protected by Iran, both a bloody and hateful disgrace. EDIT: if you are downvoting this entry, please reply and explain where I'm wrong.
    - dsfyu404ed 10y ago
      Considering the way the Palestinians have been treated by Israel I think it's unreasonable to expect them to want peace.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
      - user982 10y ago
        Don't forget to prefix them as "so-called" Palestinians so the GP knows which non-people you're referencing.
        ank_the_elder 10y ago
        Yet more ignorance of history. The word Palestine comes from 'Peleshet' which means 'Philistine.' The Philistines were mediterranean people originating from Asia Minor and Greek localities. The Philistines were not Arabs nor even Semites, they were most closely related to the Greeks. They did not speak Arabic. They had no connection, ethnic, linguistic or historical with Arabia or Arabs. Hence "so-called Palestinians." EDIT: Again, downvoting without discussing doesn't help your cause. Feel free to reply and leave clear citations and facts. I'll wait.
- axiom_ny 10y ago
  Jews? There are Jews living in Iran and by their law, there must always be a Jewish member of Parliament. They have no problem with Jews.
  - ank_the_elder 10y ago
    How do you explain Iran's 2016 Holocaust Cartoon Contest, featuring Holocaust Denialism? https://www.ushmm.org/confront-antisemitism/holocaust-denial-and-distortion/iran-cartoon-exhibition/introduction/iran-holocaust-cartoon-exhibition https://www.ushmm.org/confront-antisemitism/holocaust-denial...
    - narrowrail 10y ago
      I explain it the same way I explain the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq: a complete farce perpetrated by the government on its people. It's also the same way I will explain the election of Trump to children.
spikels 10y ago
I would say both Saudi Arabia and Iran have terrible records on human rights. And in some cases Iran is clearly worse. For example Iran executes far more people each year than Saudi Arabia - something like 3 times as many. https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/iran/report-iran/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-a... https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/saudi-arabia/report-saudi-arabia/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-a...

ars 10y ago

If Iran would just stop verbally attacking Israel and Jews, and stop putting on holocaust denial shows it would be a lot easier to change the labels.

coldtea 10y ago
Well, if Israel also stops claiming its surrounding land.
- aikah 10y ago
  > Well, if Israel also stops claiming its surrounding land. What land belonging to Iran does Israel occupy ? care to explain ? does that justify calls for the extermination of Israel and the Jews ? does that justify holocaust denial ?
  - fixxer 10y ago
    I believe "it" was a reference to Israel, not Iran. As in, expansion of Israel at cost to Palestinians, not Iranians.
  - davidf18 10y ago
    Ironically, it was the Cyrus the Great of the Persian Empire that was responsible for exiled Jews to return to Jerusalem and build the Second Temple: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Temple#Biblical_narrative https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Temple#Biblical_narrati...
- fixxer 10y ago
  You're both right.
  - koytch 10y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7RmcdHrYuk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7RmcdHrYuk
- at-fates-hands 10y ago
  You're not very familiar with history are you? The whole idea was to establish the model for two states living peacefully and productively side by side. No one seems to remember that simultaneous with the Gaza withdrawal, Israel dismantled four smaller settlements in the northern West Bank as a clear signal of Israel's desire to leave the West Bank too and thus achieve an amicable two-state solution. And how did the Gaza Palestinians react to being granted by the Israelis what no previous ruler, neither Egyptian, nor British, nor Turkish, had ever given them – an independent territory? First, they demolished the greenhouses. Then they elected Hamas. Then, instead of building a state with its attendant political and economic institutions, they spent the better part of a decade turning Gaza into a massive military base, brimming with terror weapons, to make ceaseless war on Israel. Where are the roads and rail, the industry and infrastructure of the new Palestinian state? Nowhere. Instead, they built mile upon mile of underground tunnels to hide their weapons and, when the going gets tough, their military commanders. They spent millions importing and producing rockets, launchers, mortars, small arms, even drones. They deliberately placed them in schools, hospitals, mosques and private homes to better expose their own civilians. And from which they fire rockets at Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. source: http://www.aish.com/jw/me/The-Truth-about-Gaza.html http://www.aish.com/jw/me/The-Truth-about-Gaza.html To me it's pretty obvious the Jews just want to live in peace and have made concessions for years to do so, but Hamas wants nothing but an endless war. It's kind of hard to make peace, when the only thing your opponent is interested in is your total elimination. Like the Israeli prime minister said: "'Here's the difference between us," explains the Israeli prime minister. 'We're using missile defense to protect our civilians and they're using their civilians to protect their missiles.""
  - nyolfen 10y ago
    >To me it's pretty obvious the Jews just want to live in peace and have made concessions for years to do so http://www.thehypertexts.com/images/israel-palestine_map.jpg http://www.thehypertexts.com/images/israel-palestine_map.jpg >"'Here's the difference between us," explains the Israeli prime minister. 'We're using missile defense to protect our civilians and they're using their civilians to protect their missiles."" the former is perhaps more tenable when one doesn't live in the world's largest and densest open-air prison
vkou 10y ago
If Israel would stop physically attacking Palestinians, and stop running an apartheid state, this complaint would have some merit. Measuring every Middle Eastern geo-political question as "But how will this help Israel" is both short-sighted, and will lead you to support gross violations of human rights.
- ank_the_elder 10y ago
  In no way is Israel an apartheid state (Israeli Muslims/Arabs have full citizenship on par with Jews) The lives lost are the making of the so-called Palestinians who have never wanted peace with Israelis and terrorist organisations like Hamas and the Iran-backed Hezbollah who just hates Jews and wants them to disappear - via any means necessary. Two small examples: the Embajada and the AMIA attacks in Argentina, both by Hezbollah, both protected by Iran, both a bloody and hateful disgrace. EDIT: if you are downvoting this entry, please reply and explain where I'm wrong.
  - dsfyu404ed 10y ago
    Considering the way the Palestinians have been treated by Israel I think it's unreasonable to expect them to want peace.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - user982 10y ago
      Don't forget to prefix them as "so-called" Palestinians so the GP knows which non-people you're referencing.
      - ank_the_elder 10y ago
        Yet more ignorance of history. The word Palestine comes from 'Peleshet' which means 'Philistine.' The Philistines were mediterranean people originating from Asia Minor and Greek localities. The Philistines were not Arabs nor even Semites, they were most closely related to the Greeks. They did not speak Arabic. They had no connection, ethnic, linguistic or historical with Arabia or Arabs. Hence "so-called Palestinians." EDIT: Again, downvoting without discussing doesn't help your cause. Feel free to reply and leave clear citations and facts. I'll wait.
axiom_ny 10y ago
Jews? There are Jews living in Iran and by their law, there must always be a Jewish member of Parliament. They have no problem with Jews.
- ank_the_elder 10y ago
  How do you explain Iran's 2016 Holocaust Cartoon Contest, featuring Holocaust Denialism? https://www.ushmm.org/confront-antisemitism/holocaust-denial-and-distortion/iran-cartoon-exhibition/introduction/iran-holocaust-cartoon-exhibition https://www.ushmm.org/confront-antisemitism/holocaust-denial...
  - narrowrail 10y ago
    I explain it the same way I explain the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq: a complete farce perpetrated by the government on its people. It's also the same way I will explain the election of Trump to children.

spikels 10y ago

I would say both Saudi Arabia and Iran have terrible records on human rights. And in some cases Iran is clearly worse. For example Iran executes far more people each year than Saudi Arabia - something like 3 times as many. https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/iran/report-iran/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-a... https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-africa/saudi-arabia/report-saudi-arabia/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/middle-east-and-north-a...