4 ms·

Having run across seducers of secrets in really life, they were always up front about what they were after, and find it hard to believe those who fell into Bett

by nxzero 10y ago

Having run across seducers of secrets in really life, they were always up front about what they were after, and find it hard to believe those who fell into Betty's trap didn't know what they were doing. As such, a deep respect for her, since there's only so many times you play with fire before you get burned.

rublev 10y ago
Realistically how do you become a spy?
- barrkel 10y ago
  Seems to me that the more usual way human intelligence works is that handlers work with informants, and actual direct undercover work is pretty rare. The relationship between handlers and informants is sometimes mercenary (i.e. paying them), sometimes coercive (perhaps blackmail), sometimes ideological but ultimately always instrumental. The people taking the biggest risks are usually defectors (a kinder word for traitors) of some kind.
- colechristensen 10y ago
  Become a journalist or enter the armed forces.
  - Archio 10y ago
    The armed forces route makes sense. Could you elaborate examples regarding the journalist path?
    - nickpsecurity 10y ago
      Journalists and spies have same core skill: get information out of people. A good journalist already has a chance of getting hired as a spook just on that basis. Press passes also get people in various countries and places someone claiming to be a spy wouldn't be allowed in. So, many journalists did work for CIA etc. The CIA also creates news organizations to serve its propaganda and provide cover as journalists for spooks. Very common. I'm sure MI6 does similar stuff with journalists but I have no data. Famous example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird
    - nxzero 10y ago
      Putting aside most journalists are not spy material, investigative journalist are basically spies - they're actively watched and recruited too. During WW2, 22 journalists in America were spying for the Soviets; by profession, this was second only to engineers. Today, given the heavy surveillance of investigative journalist, they basically have to use the same trade craft that a spy would use to maintain operational security.
- hackaflocka 10y ago
  You don't contact them. They contact you. Like the earlier poster said, you need a high profile career where you are able to signal intelligence, mental toughness, and your political and patriotic leanings. Journalism leads to all sorts of amazing career opportunities (if you want to think of it that way). A lot of journalists are actually doing lobbying for some special interest or the other.
  - nxzero 10y ago
    No reason not to contact them, but yes, they actively recruit too.
    - martinpw 10y ago
      I remember seeing a booth for the NSA at the Supercomputing conference a few years ago on the show floor. The floor was full of huge expensive noisy booths from big corporations, universities and other government agencies. In contrast the NSA booth was the most basic booth on the floor. There was a simple printed sign in standard Helvetica font, same as used on all the cheap booths, with the agency's name (no logo), one guy in a suit sitting behind a bare table, and one chair in front of the table for visitors. Nothing else. The sheer minimalism of it made it impressive. I wanted to take a picture but, well, you know...
  - rdtsc 10y ago
    In the university math department I heard this joke: Q: How do you get a job with the NSA? A: You call your mom and ask for an application form.
    - nxzero 10y ago
      If only the NSA was that clever.
- wglb 10y ago
  A friend of mine, an professor of religion in North Carolina, told me that if you "have languages", meaning that if you speak multiple languages, "you will get a phone call."
  - executesorder66 10y ago
    According to this link[0] there are more multilingual people in the world, than monolingual. So that's at least 3 billion people who "will get a phone call". [0] http://www.cal.org/content/download/1803/19986/file/AGlobalPerspectiveonBilingualism.pdf http://www.cal.org/content/download/1803/19986/file/AGlobalP...
    - ptaipale 10y ago
      However, far fewer of them are Americans....
    - rat87 10y ago
      Probably if you're fluent in multiple languages particularly useful for spies at the moment, rather then getting by in Spanish.
    - wglb 10y ago
      The point being that in US multilingual is less frequent.
- mcguire 10y ago
  What do you mean by "spy"? All the three letter agencies actively recruit on university campuses (as in job fairs). Some of those hired that way will undoubtedly end up in undercover positions. Outside of official positions, have skills or access they need and either contact them or respond favorably when they contact you.
- superuser2 10y ago
  Far as I can tell, the intelligence community is a fork in the road on the career path to diplomat. You study languages, public policy, international relations, etc. You get State Department / vague US gov (National Security Language Institute - Youth) scholarships to fly to the middle east and learn languages over your summers. You do internships in college with State and think tanks. It goes from there. (This is probably more for analysts than field agents). Of course, actual physical badassery is carried out by special operations divisions of the armed forces - you get there by being a really good soldier, sailor, marine, or airman. The intelligence services do just have regular job boards, college recruiting, etc. too. And then there's private intelligence firms, which have some overlap with journalism (i.e. Stratfor and Reuters both sell intelligence services in addition to their publications).
  - arethuza 10y ago
    Robert Baer's book Fear No Evil has an account of his selection and training as a field officer in the CIA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/See_No_Evil_(Baer_book) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/See_No_Evil_(Baer_book) Also, on the MI6 side of things Paddy Ashdown went from the Royal Marines to the SBS then to MI6 - he doesn't go into detail in his autobiography about what he did in MI6 but he does describe how he was approached and what his "cover story" was - a diplomat for the UK at the UN in Geneva. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddy_Ashdown https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddy_Ashdown
- DelaneyM 10y ago
  The positions they need to fill are unique enough that they will find you if you're a candidate. I was courted pretty heavily by CSIS[1] & the CSE[2] in Canada coming out of school (Waterloo), I assume because of my language profile and degrees in CS & cryptography. Being recruited for a semi-covert program is a really interesting experience. I still can't (and would not!) talk about most of it, but was really close to signing on. 1: https://www.csis.gc.ca/bts/role-en.php https://www.csis.gc.ca/bts/role-en.php 2: https://www.cse-cst.gc.ca/en/about-apropos https://www.cse-cst.gc.ca/en/about-apropos
  - lostlogin 10y ago
    Those skills you cite are presumably very handy back in the office, but in the field? CS and cryptography would seem of limited usefulness when trying to get someone to tell you state secrets. However you have experience on this area and I have none.

by nxzero 10y ago

rublev 10y ago

Realistically how do you become a spy?

barrkel 10y ago
Seems to me that the more usual way human intelligence works is that handlers work with informants, and actual direct undercover work is pretty rare. The relationship between handlers and informants is sometimes mercenary (i.e. paying them), sometimes coercive (perhaps blackmail), sometimes ideological but ultimately always instrumental. The people taking the biggest risks are usually defectors (a kinder word for traitors) of some kind.
colechristensen 10y ago
Become a journalist or enter the armed forces.
- Archio 10y ago
  The armed forces route makes sense. Could you elaborate examples regarding the journalist path?
  - nickpsecurity 10y ago
    Journalists and spies have same core skill: get information out of people. A good journalist already has a chance of getting hired as a spook just on that basis. Press passes also get people in various countries and places someone claiming to be a spy wouldn't be allowed in. So, many journalists did work for CIA etc. The CIA also creates news organizations to serve its propaganda and provide cover as journalists for spooks. Very common. I'm sure MI6 does similar stuff with journalists but I have no data. Famous example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird
  - nxzero 10y ago
    Putting aside most journalists are not spy material, investigative journalist are basically spies - they're actively watched and recruited too. During WW2, 22 journalists in America were spying for the Soviets; by profession, this was second only to engineers. Today, given the heavy surveillance of investigative journalist, they basically have to use the same trade craft that a spy would use to maintain operational security.
hackaflocka 10y ago
You don't contact them. They contact you. Like the earlier poster said, you need a high profile career where you are able to signal intelligence, mental toughness, and your political and patriotic leanings. Journalism leads to all sorts of amazing career opportunities (if you want to think of it that way). A lot of journalists are actually doing lobbying for some special interest or the other.
- nxzero 10y ago
  No reason not to contact them, but yes, they actively recruit too.
  - martinpw 10y ago
    I remember seeing a booth for the NSA at the Supercomputing conference a few years ago on the show floor. The floor was full of huge expensive noisy booths from big corporations, universities and other government agencies. In contrast the NSA booth was the most basic booth on the floor. There was a simple printed sign in standard Helvetica font, same as used on all the cheap booths, with the agency's name (no logo), one guy in a suit sitting behind a bare table, and one chair in front of the table for visitors. Nothing else. The sheer minimalism of it made it impressive. I wanted to take a picture but, well, you know...
- rdtsc 10y ago
  In the university math department I heard this joke: Q: How do you get a job with the NSA? A: You call your mom and ask for an application form.
  - nxzero 10y ago
    If only the NSA was that clever.
wglb 10y ago
A friend of mine, an professor of religion in North Carolina, told me that if you "have languages", meaning that if you speak multiple languages, "you will get a phone call."
- executesorder66 10y ago
  According to this link[0] there are more multilingual people in the world, than monolingual. So that's at least 3 billion people who "will get a phone call". [0] http://www.cal.org/content/download/1803/19986/file/AGlobalPerspectiveonBilingualism.pdf http://www.cal.org/content/download/1803/19986/file/AGlobalP...
  - ptaipale 10y ago
    However, far fewer of them are Americans....
  - rat87 10y ago
    Probably if you're fluent in multiple languages particularly useful for spies at the moment, rather then getting by in Spanish.
  - wglb 10y ago
    The point being that in US multilingual is less frequent.
mcguire 10y ago
What do you mean by "spy"? All the three letter agencies actively recruit on university campuses (as in job fairs). Some of those hired that way will undoubtedly end up in undercover positions. Outside of official positions, have skills or access they need and either contact them or respond favorably when they contact you.
superuser2 10y ago
Far as I can tell, the intelligence community is a fork in the road on the career path to diplomat. You study languages, public policy, international relations, etc. You get State Department / vague US gov (National Security Language Institute - Youth) scholarships to fly to the middle east and learn languages over your summers. You do internships in college with State and think tanks. It goes from there. (This is probably more for analysts than field agents). Of course, actual physical badassery is carried out by special operations divisions of the armed forces - you get there by being a really good soldier, sailor, marine, or airman. The intelligence services do just have regular job boards, college recruiting, etc. too. And then there's private intelligence firms, which have some overlap with journalism (i.e. Stratfor and Reuters both sell intelligence services in addition to their publications).
- arethuza 10y ago
  Robert Baer's book Fear No Evil has an account of his selection and training as a field officer in the CIA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/See_No_Evil_(Baer_book) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/See_No_Evil_(Baer_book) Also, on the MI6 side of things Paddy Ashdown went from the Royal Marines to the SBS then to MI6 - he doesn't go into detail in his autobiography about what he did in MI6 but he does describe how he was approached and what his "cover story" was - a diplomat for the UK at the UN in Geneva. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddy_Ashdown https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddy_Ashdown
DelaneyM 10y ago
The positions they need to fill are unique enough that they will find you if you're a candidate. I was courted pretty heavily by CSIS[1] & the CSE[2] in Canada coming out of school (Waterloo), I assume because of my language profile and degrees in CS & cryptography. Being recruited for a semi-covert program is a really interesting experience. I still can't (and would not!) talk about most of it, but was really close to signing on. 1: https://www.csis.gc.ca/bts/role-en.php https://www.csis.gc.ca/bts/role-en.php 2: https://www.cse-cst.gc.ca/en/about-apropos https://www.cse-cst.gc.ca/en/about-apropos
- lostlogin 10y ago
  Those skills you cite are presumably very handy back in the office, but in the field? CS and cryptography would seem of limited usefulness when trying to get someone to tell you state secrets. However you have experience on this area and I have none.