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I think it would be fair if you also would disclose that you are working in Mozilla and that you are directly connected to Rust when defending it on HN.

by lossolo 10y ago

paulddraper 10y ago
While disclaimers are common (for some reason), it has no effect on the virtue of his points. It's just fluff.
- lossolo 10y ago
  I have different opinion on that matter. Sure, some of his points are valid, I even agree with some of them but not all and not always. That's why disclaimers exist, for that reason. Especially when there are cases of glorifying your own product and bashing others. Please read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias
  - oldmanjay 10y ago
    Do you honestly feel like this comment would help a person to see your side of this? It's a basic assumption that anyone who speaks positively about a thing is biased in favor of that thing. We don't need to point out every instance of that bias because it would dominate every discussion while providing no value because it is something everyone fundamentally assumes in the first place.
    - lossolo 10y ago
      As i noted before i agree with some of his points which means that i don't think that all his opinions are only driven by his bias. But that doesn't change what i wrote before especially if one can distinguish between what's valid technical fact and what's not.
  - SamReidHughes 10y ago
    The purpose of disclaimers is to preemptively shut up bozos that would accuse you of commenting in bad faith, not because it's right to do. And it isn't bias if you're right.
  - ben0x539 10y ago
    Have you made positive experiences with linking fairly long Wikipedia article to people who disagree with you?
scott_s 10y ago
I think pcwalton's extensive knowledge on not just how to program in Rust, but the rationale behind various design decisions should indicate to a careful reader that he is involved in Rust.
- lossolo 10y ago
  I disagree. I can know various decision behind various designs from reading what's going on github. And i know some of those decisions in different languages other than Rust, which doesn't indicate that I am involved with them.
mercurial 10y ago
Why? It would be fair if he was trying to push a product, but here it's just a technical discussion.
- lossolo 10y ago
  I am not claiming that he is pushing the product, just that his opinion can be biased, but then how would you want to push clearly technical product like Rust without technical discussion?
  - Etzos 10y ago
    I think a point you haven't considered when talking about bias is bias going the other direction. That is, if he were to mark his, technically oriented mind you, posts with information that he works on Rust it's possible that it will instill a bias among readers. Regardless of his association with Rust as a project he knows technical details and that's what's important in posts like this regardless of potential bias.
  - kevingadd 10y ago
    If actually knowing what you're talking about is a harmful form of 'bias', pretty much any informed post on HN would need a disclaimer at the bottom. Then again, that'd make it easier to filter out all the uninformed/overly cynical/inflammatory posts!
  - pohl 10y ago
    It's probably worth noting that a lack of affiliation would not imply a lack of bias.
MaulingMonkey 10y ago
Sounds like overkill to me? Would a comment in a profile be sufficient? (Disclaimer: I'm working on a web based brainfuck ide/compiler/optimizer for my own amusement, and thus probably have some kind of dog in some kind of fight here?)
- lossolo 10y ago
  Sure, comment in profile would be sufficient.
- eternalban 10y ago
  I think an affliation heads-up is required if you are pissing on a competitor's product. And in such cases, HN does effective policing. It is also possibly helpful if the commenter is elaborating on product that they are involved in to establish that their input is authoritative. And not to give cause for inflated heads here :) but seriously, if you are seriously interested in this space, you sh/would already know the cast of mvps and thus major contributors such as Russ Cox or Patrick Walton (et al) would not require introductions.
acemarke 10y ago
Honestly, just about anyone who's read an HN thread or two on Rust should be familiar with pcwalton's involvement with Rust at this point. I also don't see why he should have to insert a disclaimer paragraph in every single HN comment he makes.
- lossolo 10y ago
  He can make it inside his profile. Then i am not anyone because i didn't know he was involved in Rust some time ago, i learned that by a coincidence some time later.
rdtsc 10y ago
Why do you think it would be fair? Are you implying he is biased? But aren't we all biased for our own pet technologies we advocated, use and convinced others to use? To put it another way, is his argument or point invalid somehow? But then it would be invalid regardless if he worked for Mozilla or Microsoft or Google
- lossolo 10y ago
  Because humans are only humans, we are biased more if we are emotionally involved in something, more time you spent creating something, investing your time, more you are biased. It's about level of bias also, someone that is only using some technology is not so biased as someone that is creating one. It's psychology 101.
  - leshow 10y ago
    people shouldnt have to preface their statements with disclaimers whenever they comment on a topic, especially in such an informal setting.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
woodman 10y ago
It sounds like you'd like a signal that allows one to more quickly switch off their brain, like network television prefixing party affiliation to politician's names. "Oh it is a R talking? Well as a D I can assume that everything said is wrong, no need to evaluate individual points."
- lossolo 10y ago
  No, for me it's making the brain to see the whole picture, not turning it off. If you choose to turn off your brain when you have more information about person that is giving his personal opinions then it's your own choice. I even wrote in other comment that i agree with some of his points which contradicts your "no need to evaluate individual points".
  - woodman 10y ago
    What possible use for the additional information is there except for an appeal to authority (which isn't useful in technical discussions)?
dang 10y ago
Nah, most HN readers know that and the rest are smart enough to figure it out. We appreciate your concern for the integrity of the community. On the other hand, posts like this lead to flurries of offtopicness, so their cost/benefit is usually poor. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12474588 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12474588 and marked it off-topic.

I think it would be fair if you also would disclose that you are working in Mozilla and that you are directly connected to Rust when defending it on HN.

by lossolo 10y ago

I think it would be fair if you also would disclose that you are working in Mozilla and that you are directly connected to Rust when defending it on HN.

paulddraper 10y ago

While disclaimers are common (for some reason), it has no effect on the virtue of his points. It's just fluff.

lossolo 10y ago
I have different opinion on that matter. Sure, some of his points are valid, I even agree with some of them but not all and not always. That's why disclaimers exist, for that reason. Especially when there are cases of glorifying your own product and bashing others. Please read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias
- oldmanjay 10y ago
  Do you honestly feel like this comment would help a person to see your side of this? It's a basic assumption that anyone who speaks positively about a thing is biased in favor of that thing. We don't need to point out every instance of that bias because it would dominate every discussion while providing no value because it is something everyone fundamentally assumes in the first place.
  - lossolo 10y ago
    As i noted before i agree with some of his points which means that i don't think that all his opinions are only driven by his bias. But that doesn't change what i wrote before especially if one can distinguish between what's valid technical fact and what's not.
- SamReidHughes 10y ago
  The purpose of disclaimers is to preemptively shut up bozos that would accuse you of commenting in bad faith, not because it's right to do. And it isn't bias if you're right.
- ben0x539 10y ago
  Have you made positive experiences with linking fairly long Wikipedia article to people who disagree with you?

scott_s 10y ago

I think pcwalton's extensive knowledge on not just how to program in Rust, but the rationale behind various design decisions should indicate to a careful reader that he is involved in Rust.

lossolo 10y ago
I disagree. I can know various decision behind various designs from reading what's going on github. And i know some of those decisions in different languages other than Rust, which doesn't indicate that I am involved with them.

mercurial 10y ago

Why? It would be fair if he was trying to push a product, but here it's just a technical discussion.

lossolo 10y ago
I am not claiming that he is pushing the product, just that his opinion can be biased, but then how would you want to push clearly technical product like Rust without technical discussion?
- Etzos 10y ago
  I think a point you haven't considered when talking about bias is bias going the other direction. That is, if he were to mark his, technically oriented mind you, posts with information that he works on Rust it's possible that it will instill a bias among readers. Regardless of his association with Rust as a project he knows technical details and that's what's important in posts like this regardless of potential bias.
- kevingadd 10y ago
  If actually knowing what you're talking about is a harmful form of 'bias', pretty much any informed post on HN would need a disclaimer at the bottom. Then again, that'd make it easier to filter out all the uninformed/overly cynical/inflammatory posts!
- pohl 10y ago
  It's probably worth noting that a lack of affiliation would not imply a lack of bias.

MaulingMonkey 10y ago

Sounds like overkill to me? Would a comment in a profile be sufficient? (Disclaimer: I'm working on a web based brainfuck ide/compiler/optimizer for my own amusement, and thus probably have some kind of dog in some kind of fight here?)

lossolo 10y ago
Sure, comment in profile would be sufficient.
eternalban 10y ago
I think an affliation heads-up is required if you are pissing on a competitor's product. And in such cases, HN does effective policing. It is also possibly helpful if the commenter is elaborating on product that they are involved in to establish that their input is authoritative. And not to give cause for inflated heads here :) but seriously, if you are seriously interested in this space, you sh/would already know the cast of mvps and thus major contributors such as Russ Cox or Patrick Walton (et al) would not require introductions.

acemarke 10y ago

Honestly, just about anyone who's read an HN thread or two on Rust should be familiar with pcwalton's involvement with Rust at this point. I also don't see why he should have to insert a disclaimer paragraph in every single HN comment he makes.

lossolo 10y ago
He can make it inside his profile. Then i am not anyone because i didn't know he was involved in Rust some time ago, i learned that by a coincidence some time later.

rdtsc 10y ago

Why do you think it would be fair? Are you implying he is biased? But aren't we all biased for our own pet technologies we advocated, use and convinced others to use? To put it another way, is his argument or point invalid somehow? But then it would be invalid regardless if he worked for Mozilla or Microsoft or Google

lossolo 10y ago
Because humans are only humans, we are biased more if we are emotionally involved in something, more time you spent creating something, investing your time, more you are biased. It's about level of bias also, someone that is only using some technology is not so biased as someone that is creating one. It's psychology 101.
- leshow 10y ago
  people shouldnt have to preface their statements with disclaimers whenever they comment on a topic, especially in such an informal setting.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

woodman 10y ago

It sounds like you'd like a signal that allows one to more quickly switch off their brain, like network television prefixing party affiliation to politician's names. "Oh it is a R talking? Well as a D I can assume that everything said is wrong, no need to evaluate individual points."

lossolo 10y ago
No, for me it's making the brain to see the whole picture, not turning it off. If you choose to turn off your brain when you have more information about person that is giving his personal opinions then it's your own choice. I even wrote in other comment that i agree with some of his points which contradicts your "no need to evaluate individual points".
- woodman 10y ago
  What possible use for the additional information is there except for an appeal to authority (which isn't useful in technical discussions)?

dang 10y ago

Nah, most HN readers know that and the rest are smart enough to figure it out. We appreciate your concern for the integrity of the community. On the other hand, posts like this lead to flurries of offtopicness, so their cost/benefit is usually poor. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12474588 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12474588 and marked it off-topic.