4 ms·

How about immigration? Once Basic Income is introduced in one area, people from all over the world will start moving there. Right now SF is not even capable to

by jkot 10y ago

How about immigration? Once Basic Income is introduced in one area, people from all over the world will start moving there. Right now SF is not even capable to host 450 homeless arriving every year. What would you do if that number of people arrived every day or every hour?

daenney 10y ago
> people from all over the world will start moving there. I don't think immigration laws would permit that. For one, you couldn't "just move" to the US like that. Within the EU it could become an interesting problem if some countries did this and others didn't. I suspect that if anyone were to try this there'll be some limitations at first, like you have to have citizenship, or prove legal residency for longer than "since the past few minutes".
- jkot 10y ago
  But that would not be really basic income (which is unconditional). There would be second class of citizens. Something like controlled rent today.
  - TillE 10y ago
    I can't vote in Germany. I'm not a "second class of citizen", I'm literally not a citizen.
    - jkot 10y ago
      But you are "citizen enough" to pay taxes or receive social benefits. And some non-citizens can vote in Germany. Anyway, by definition Basic Income is unconditional. Anyone who applies should get it.
      - chillwaves 10y ago
        > by definition Basic Income is unconditional. Anyone who applies should get it. Doesn't have to be. Some versions are, some aren't. Given we are talking about a system that does not exist, not sure why you say it is one thing or the other. Some versions give to minors, some do not. Some only give to citizens in good standing (no felons). Conditions can exist and should exist in my opinion.
      - _nalply 10y ago
        And what if a dolphin applies? Perhaps deputised by someone? This means, there's at least one condition: only humans can apply.
      - daenney 10y ago
        That's not citizenship, that's residency. Those are two different things with very different implications as to your status in a country which can also vary depending on the length of residency.

by jkot 10y ago

daenney 10y ago

> people from all over the world will start moving there. I don't think immigration laws would permit that. For one, you couldn't "just move" to the US like that. Within the EU it could become an interesting problem if some countries did this and others didn't. I suspect that if anyone were to try this there'll be some limitations at first, like you have to have citizenship, or prove legal residency for longer than "since the past few minutes".

jkot 10y ago
But that would not be really basic income (which is unconditional). There would be second class of citizens. Something like controlled rent today.
- TillE 10y ago
  I can't vote in Germany. I'm not a "second class of citizen", I'm literally not a citizen.
  - jkot 10y ago
    But you are "citizen enough" to pay taxes or receive social benefits. And some non-citizens can vote in Germany. Anyway, by definition Basic Income is unconditional. Anyone who applies should get it.
    - chillwaves 10y ago
      > by definition Basic Income is unconditional. Anyone who applies should get it. Doesn't have to be. Some versions are, some aren't. Given we are talking about a system that does not exist, not sure why you say it is one thing or the other. Some versions give to minors, some do not. Some only give to citizens in good standing (no felons). Conditions can exist and should exist in my opinion.
    - _nalply 10y ago
      And what if a dolphin applies? Perhaps deputised by someone? This means, there's at least one condition: only humans can apply.
    - daenney 10y ago
      That's not citizenship, that's residency. Those are two different things with very different implications as to your status in a country which can also vary depending on the length of residency.