5 ms·

My little brother is a fire fighter. He tells me it's involuntary. At a certain point the heat and smoke get so intense that you can't do anything but jump. He'

by rawfan 10y ago

My little brother is a fire fighter. He tells me it's involuntary. At a certain point the heat and smoke get so intense that you can't do anything but jump. He's seen his trained collegues do it.

truth_sentinell 10y ago
I wonder why most business buildings don't have some sort of mechanism on the outside that allows people to climb off? That would have save many many lives.
- refurb 10y ago
  You mean a fire escape? Most buildings do, but some are internal. Nothing like that would have helped in the wtc.
  - celticninja 10y ago
    Parachutes next to a window with a hammer. Would have helped some, but of course you could not store enough for everyone. And whilst training may usually be necessary, shoulder and leg straps aren't that hard to work out and a bright coloured mini chute thrown to engage the main chute would be feasible. And of course the perils of crashing into the building etc are still there but for the sort of situations we are talking about you would be almost certainly dead if yiu didn't jump.
    - gbajson 10y ago
      Good luck. BASE jump without many, many practice parachute jumps before means almost sure dead. Also, parachutes need to folded and unfolded from time time.
      - celticninja 10y ago
        As I said these are for the situation where you are dead if you don't.
- dredmorbius 10y ago
  https://duckduckgo.com/?q=skyscraper+evacuation+systems&t=ftas&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=skyscraper+evacuation+systems&t=ft... https://www.technologyreview.com/s/425276/the-best-way-to-evacuate-a-skyscraper/ https://www.technologyreview.com/s/425276/the-best-way-to-ev... https://www.chamberofcommerce.com/herndon-va/33439780-skyscraper-evacuation-systems-inc https://www.chamberofcommerce.com/herndon-va/33439780-skyscr... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_evacuation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_evacuation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_escape https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_escape https://sourceable.net/tablet/single/?name=high-rise-fires-rethinking-exit-strategies https://sourceable.net/tablet/single/?name=high-rise-fires-r... http://emergency.cornell.edu/building-evacuation/ http://emergency.cornell.edu/building-evacuation/ In short: there are systems, and they work, to varying extents, for existing structures. Very tall supertowers are a particular challenge, as every internal safety system competes for space with other interior uses, and external evacuation systems are difficult to specify and design. Many possible systems would have been compromised, internally or externally, on the twin towers, from the same extraordinary threats as were compromising the structure itself: gross physical damge to the structure, which closed off internal stairwells, and a raging, jet-fuel-fed inferno, which was weakening steel structural beams, and which would have compromised numerous possible esternal escape structures based on natural or synthetic fiber rope or tube systems. Aerial evacuation was similarly hampered both by smoke and by lack of rooftop access (doors to the WTC roofs were locked against internal use). The most effective protection was simply not to be in the towers when they fell. The decision of some survivors to leave WTC1 after witnessing WTC2's strike was key, and the in-building announcements to not evacuate contributed directly to the death toll. The inhabitants of WTC2 above the impact zone were doomed in all but the most optimistic scenarios, which is troubling -- the situation bears some resemblance to the disaster on the RMS Titanic in 1914, for which I strongly recommend the 1954 film A Night to Remember. It's worth remembering that the daytime occupancy of the WTC complex could exceed 50,000, and estimates are that 17,400 people were in the towers at the time of the attacks. Over 84% of the occupants managed to escape successfully (the death total of 2,753 includes both the hijackers themselves and occupants of the two flights which struck the towers). That's a grim success under the circumstances.
  - truth_sentinell 10y ago

by rawfan 10y ago

My little brother is a fire fighter. He tells me it's involuntary. At a certain point the heat and smoke get so intense that you can't do anything but jump. He's seen his trained collegues do it.

truth_sentinell 10y ago

I wonder why most business buildings don't have some sort of mechanism on the outside that allows people to climb off? That would have save many many lives.

refurb 10y ago
You mean a fire escape? Most buildings do, but some are internal. Nothing like that would have helped in the wtc.
- celticninja 10y ago
  Parachutes next to a window with a hammer. Would have helped some, but of course you could not store enough for everyone. And whilst training may usually be necessary, shoulder and leg straps aren't that hard to work out and a bright coloured mini chute thrown to engage the main chute would be feasible. And of course the perils of crashing into the building etc are still there but for the sort of situations we are talking about you would be almost certainly dead if yiu didn't jump.
  - gbajson 10y ago
    Good luck. BASE jump without many, many practice parachute jumps before means almost sure dead. Also, parachutes need to folded and unfolded from time time.
    - celticninja 10y ago
      As I said these are for the situation where you are dead if you don't.
dredmorbius 10y ago
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=skyscraper+evacuation+systems&t=ftas&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?q=skyscraper+evacuation+systems&t=ft... https://www.technologyreview.com/s/425276/the-best-way-to-evacuate-a-skyscraper/ https://www.technologyreview.com/s/425276/the-best-way-to-ev... https://www.chamberofcommerce.com/herndon-va/33439780-skyscraper-evacuation-systems-inc https://www.chamberofcommerce.com/herndon-va/33439780-skyscr... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_evacuation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_evacuation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_escape https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_escape https://sourceable.net/tablet/single/?name=high-rise-fires-rethinking-exit-strategies https://sourceable.net/tablet/single/?name=high-rise-fires-r... http://emergency.cornell.edu/building-evacuation/ http://emergency.cornell.edu/building-evacuation/ In short: there are systems, and they work, to varying extents, for existing structures. Very tall supertowers are a particular challenge, as every internal safety system competes for space with other interior uses, and external evacuation systems are difficult to specify and design. Many possible systems would have been compromised, internally or externally, on the twin towers, from the same extraordinary threats as were compromising the structure itself: gross physical damge to the structure, which closed off internal stairwells, and a raging, jet-fuel-fed inferno, which was weakening steel structural beams, and which would have compromised numerous possible esternal escape structures based on natural or synthetic fiber rope or tube systems. Aerial evacuation was similarly hampered both by smoke and by lack of rooftop access (doors to the WTC roofs were locked against internal use). The most effective protection was simply not to be in the towers when they fell. The decision of some survivors to leave WTC1 after witnessing WTC2's strike was key, and the in-building announcements to not evacuate contributed directly to the death toll. The inhabitants of WTC2 above the impact zone were doomed in all but the most optimistic scenarios, which is troubling -- the situation bears some resemblance to the disaster on the RMS Titanic in 1914, for which I strongly recommend the 1954 film A Night to Remember. It's worth remembering that the daytime occupancy of the WTC complex could exceed 50,000, and estimates are that 17,400 people were in the towers at the time of the attacks. Over 84% of the occupants managed to escape successfully (the death total of 2,753 includes both the hijackers themselves and occupants of the two flights which struck the towers). That's a grim success under the circumstances.
- truth_sentinell 10y ago