9 ms·

> I lack the outdoorsy know-how and wisdom to feel at ease on the backroads of the desert southwest. This is one of the reasons that I am glad I was a Scout an

by donw 10y ago

> I lack the outdoorsy know-how and wisdom to feel at ease on the backroads of the desert southwest. This is one of the reasons that I am glad I was a Scout and spent a lot of time in the backcountry. I grew up thinking that this is how everybody grows up, but having lived in several major world cities, it has never ceased to amaze me how few city-folk know any fundamental outdoor skills. Selecting a campsite, leaving no trace when you leave, water purification and management, building and containing campfires, land navigation with a map and compass, how to safely use a rifle, knife use and maintenance, first aid... I learned all of these as a kid. Spending that time "roughing it" really helps you appreciate the benefits of both preserving nature, as well as the wonders of modern civilization. It also builds some serious self-reliance skills, which have served me well in life. Maybe we need a program similar to Scouting, but for adults that have lived all of their lives in or around cities? Would help to bridge the urban-rural divide in both directions. Does such a thing exist?

monk_e_boy 10y ago
> it has never ceased to amaze me how few city-folk know any fundamental outdoor skills. In our local area we have several drownings a year, tourists who don't understand the power of the ocean. That and people falling off cliffs. Our education system (UK) is very out of touch with nature. Very few students get to swim in the ocean, climb a cliff, light a fire or camp out in the woods.
- k-mcgrady 10y ago
  >> "Our education system (UK)" The UK isn't big but I don't think you can generalise here because my experience is very different. Scout groups seem very popular (so popular it's really difficult to get your kid a place in one), schools offer the optional Duke of Edinburgh award which teaches camping/orienteering and is pretty popular, and in the UK a hell of a lot of people live pretty close to the ocean and know how to use it safely (surfing is very popular in Ireland and south cost of England/Welsh coast). When I was younger my friends and I would go camping a few times a year as did many other groups of friends (the reason was mostly so we could get drunk without getting caught but still we hiked 12 hours to get there, figured out how to cook, get water, build a fire, pitch tents etc.). On the other hand I've been pretty shocked this Summer that every sunny weekend it seems half a dozen people get killed in the ocean here. I'm only in my mid-20's but maybe the education system has been lacking in recent years to cause this? Or is it maybe that kids don't play outdoors very much anymore so don't have an easy way to learn and practice the skills? In the 90's video games were just hitting/becoming affordable so we could build huts in fields, play football everyday, ride bikes, play on building sites, camp several times a year. Looking at younger family members they don't do any of these things. Maybe it's not education but lack of practice. Schools can teach you how to swim but if you never actually go to the ocean or a pool after learning you're going to be out of practice when you go and try to swim in the ocean in the summer.
  - gaius 10y ago
    Scout groups seem very popular (so popular it's really difficult to get your kid a place in one), schools offer the optional Duke of Edinburgh award which teaches camping/orienteering and is pretty popular Don't forget the Cadet organizations too e.g. https://armycadets.com https://armycadets.com
hueving 10y ago
There is a non-trivial portion of the population that feels rifles only exist to kill other people. How would you convince them to take such a course?
- kzrdude 10y ago
  Rifle shooting doesn't seem to be an important component. As a non-american scout my experience includes all the same things, except the shooting.
  - waterphone 10y ago
    In many cases, it's less about knowing how to shoot a rifle (though that is a factor as well) and more about how to safely handle one. Even if you do not care for guns, there are many around, and knowing how to safely handle one and treat it with the care needed helps to prevent deadly accidents.
    - dvtv75 10y ago
      I'd add to that the ability to recognize when a weapon is not being safely handled, and either confiscate (in certain circumstances) or correct the person with the weapon, or just vacate the area.
  - zipwitch 10y ago
    A rifle really is the best tool for: hunting large game for food and defending yourself from hostile megafauna.
- jeff_petersen 10y ago
  They could certainly opt out of any shooting education, it wasn't compulsory when I was a Boy Scout. Though I think the fact that they'd be shooting at paper targets would be a pretty immediate rebuttal of their beliefs.
- function_seven 10y ago
  It would probably be hard to convince them. But I'd try by drawing the parallels with encryption and illegal activity. To rephrase your statement There is a non-trivial portion of the population that feels encryption only exists to hide illegal activity. How would you convince them to use a VPN?
gkanai 10y ago
> Does such a thing exist? National Outdoor Leadership School perhaps?
nommm-nommm 10y ago
I think we should try to first make popular scouting organizations for children who are diverse, inclusive, and welcoming. The Boy Scouts of America currently can't be supported by me no matter their merits because of their stances on gays and the non-religious. I also don't support sex segregation in scouting. Keep the BSofA for the people who want that sort of thing but let's support inclusive scouting organizations as well.
- GFischer 10y ago
  Some people inside BSofA are trying to change that (I know one of them). Hopefully they'll prevail.
- donw 10y ago
  Agreed. Lord Baden-Powell would be very disappointed at the Boy Scouts as it exists today. But I do seem to meet a large number of young adults that could benefit from a similar experience to Scouting, in terms of learning valuable life skills, building self-confidence, and as a way of broadening their experience outside of urban life.
  - ptomato 10y ago
    > Lord Baden-Powell would be very disappointed at the Boy Scouts as it exists today. Lord Baden-Powell as he was or a hypothetical version of him with modern morality applied? "No man is much good unless he believes in God and obeys His laws. So every Scout should have a religion....Religion seems a very simple thing: First: Love and Serve God. Second: Love and serve your neighbour." - from Scouting for Boys. And, generally, he seemed to consider that pretty important.
    - xorcist 10y ago
      Scouting for Boys is basically what he started out with. He then lived on to nurture the organization into something else. Other life outlooks than his own, including atheism, was never really problematic. Otherwise it wouldn't have spread to muslims, jews, atheists and so on. All of this matters very little however, as Baden-Powell's ideas aren't gospel. The organization doesn't exist to teach hundred year old ideas about how boys should behave. (It's important to know that the national organizations have a lot of leeway in shaping their own program and the BSA is unique in a number of ways.)
japhyr 10y ago
> Maybe we need a program similar to Scouting, but for adults that have lived all of their lives in or around cities? Would help to bridge the urban-rural divide in both directions. Does such a thing exist? There are two good options for this, NOLS (National Outdoor Leadership School) and Outward Bound. I went on an Outward Bound expedition where we kayaked for several days on Lake Superior, and I have a number of friends involved with NOLS. NOLS and Outward Bound are similar; they both teach outdoor skills in a group setting. Outward Bound has a little more emphasis on group dynamics, but they're both great programs and they offer a wide variety of courses in beautiful locations. NOLS: http://www.nols.edu/ http://www.nols.edu/ Outward Bound: http://www.outwardbound.org/ http://www.outwardbound.org/
brightball 10y ago
Totally agree here and had the same experience. Scouts was one of the best parts of my childhood and I say that as a kid who otherwise would have preferred to be indoors playing video games.

by donw 10y ago

monk_e_boy 10y ago

> it has never ceased to amaze me how few city-folk know any fundamental outdoor skills. In our local area we have several drownings a year, tourists who don't understand the power of the ocean. That and people falling off cliffs. Our education system (UK) is very out of touch with nature. Very few students get to swim in the ocean, climb a cliff, light a fire or camp out in the woods.

k-mcgrady 10y ago
>> "Our education system (UK)" The UK isn't big but I don't think you can generalise here because my experience is very different. Scout groups seem very popular (so popular it's really difficult to get your kid a place in one), schools offer the optional Duke of Edinburgh award which teaches camping/orienteering and is pretty popular, and in the UK a hell of a lot of people live pretty close to the ocean and know how to use it safely (surfing is very popular in Ireland and south cost of England/Welsh coast). When I was younger my friends and I would go camping a few times a year as did many other groups of friends (the reason was mostly so we could get drunk without getting caught but still we hiked 12 hours to get there, figured out how to cook, get water, build a fire, pitch tents etc.). On the other hand I've been pretty shocked this Summer that every sunny weekend it seems half a dozen people get killed in the ocean here. I'm only in my mid-20's but maybe the education system has been lacking in recent years to cause this? Or is it maybe that kids don't play outdoors very much anymore so don't have an easy way to learn and practice the skills? In the 90's video games were just hitting/becoming affordable so we could build huts in fields, play football everyday, ride bikes, play on building sites, camp several times a year. Looking at younger family members they don't do any of these things. Maybe it's not education but lack of practice. Schools can teach you how to swim but if you never actually go to the ocean or a pool after learning you're going to be out of practice when you go and try to swim in the ocean in the summer.
- gaius 10y ago
  Scout groups seem very popular (so popular it's really difficult to get your kid a place in one), schools offer the optional Duke of Edinburgh award which teaches camping/orienteering and is pretty popular Don't forget the Cadet organizations too e.g. https://armycadets.com https://armycadets.com

hueving 10y ago

There is a non-trivial portion of the population that feels rifles only exist to kill other people. How would you convince them to take such a course?

kzrdude 10y ago
Rifle shooting doesn't seem to be an important component. As a non-american scout my experience includes all the same things, except the shooting.
- waterphone 10y ago
  In many cases, it's less about knowing how to shoot a rifle (though that is a factor as well) and more about how to safely handle one. Even if you do not care for guns, there are many around, and knowing how to safely handle one and treat it with the care needed helps to prevent deadly accidents.
  - dvtv75 10y ago
    I'd add to that the ability to recognize when a weapon is not being safely handled, and either confiscate (in certain circumstances) or correct the person with the weapon, or just vacate the area.
- zipwitch 10y ago
  A rifle really is the best tool for: hunting large game for food and defending yourself from hostile megafauna.
jeff_petersen 10y ago
They could certainly opt out of any shooting education, it wasn't compulsory when I was a Boy Scout. Though I think the fact that they'd be shooting at paper targets would be a pretty immediate rebuttal of their beliefs.
function_seven 10y ago
It would probably be hard to convince them. But I'd try by drawing the parallels with encryption and illegal activity. To rephrase your statement There is a non-trivial portion of the population that feels encryption only exists to hide illegal activity. How would you convince them to use a VPN?

gkanai 10y ago

> Does such a thing exist? National Outdoor Leadership School perhaps?

nommm-nommm 10y ago

I think we should try to first make popular scouting organizations for children who are diverse, inclusive, and welcoming. The Boy Scouts of America currently can't be supported by me no matter their merits because of their stances on gays and the non-religious. I also don't support sex segregation in scouting. Keep the BSofA for the people who want that sort of thing but let's support inclusive scouting organizations as well.

GFischer 10y ago
Some people inside BSofA are trying to change that (I know one of them). Hopefully they'll prevail.
donw 10y ago
Agreed. Lord Baden-Powell would be very disappointed at the Boy Scouts as it exists today. But I do seem to meet a large number of young adults that could benefit from a similar experience to Scouting, in terms of learning valuable life skills, building self-confidence, and as a way of broadening their experience outside of urban life.
- ptomato 10y ago
  > Lord Baden-Powell would be very disappointed at the Boy Scouts as it exists today. Lord Baden-Powell as he was or a hypothetical version of him with modern morality applied? "No man is much good unless he believes in God and obeys His laws. So every Scout should have a religion....Religion seems a very simple thing: First: Love and Serve God. Second: Love and serve your neighbour." - from Scouting for Boys. And, generally, he seemed to consider that pretty important.
  - xorcist 10y ago
    Scouting for Boys is basically what he started out with. He then lived on to nurture the organization into something else. Other life outlooks than his own, including atheism, was never really problematic. Otherwise it wouldn't have spread to muslims, jews, atheists and so on. All of this matters very little however, as Baden-Powell's ideas aren't gospel. The organization doesn't exist to teach hundred year old ideas about how boys should behave. (It's important to know that the national organizations have a lot of leeway in shaping their own program and the BSA is unique in a number of ways.)

japhyr 10y ago

> Maybe we need a program similar to Scouting, but for adults that have lived all of their lives in or around cities? Would help to bridge the urban-rural divide in both directions. Does such a thing exist? There are two good options for this, NOLS (National Outdoor Leadership School) and Outward Bound. I went on an Outward Bound expedition where we kayaked for several days on Lake Superior, and I have a number of friends involved with NOLS. NOLS and Outward Bound are similar; they both teach outdoor skills in a group setting. Outward Bound has a little more emphasis on group dynamics, but they're both great programs and they offer a wide variety of courses in beautiful locations. NOLS: http://www.nols.edu/ http://www.nols.edu/ Outward Bound: http://www.outwardbound.org/ http://www.outwardbound.org/

brightball 10y ago

Totally agree here and had the same experience. Scouts was one of the best parts of my childhood and I say that as a kid who otherwise would have preferred to be indoors playing video games.