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"The world is as Just as we make it." - There are limits to this. There are forces far powerful than we like to admit. Systems man made. Systems that are that o
by electic 10y ago
"The world is as Just as we make it." - There are limits to this. There are forces far powerful than we like to admit. Systems man made. Systems that are that of nature. With all our might we can bend some of them, but sometimes we can't. Along with things that are full of happiness there are those that fall into depression, poverty, sadness, loss, regret, and suicide. Sometimes we are victims to circumstance.
The man that fell from that tower that day didn't want his world to be what it was on that sad day. He didn't give up as you put it. To me he is brave.
- jomamaxx 10y agoThe man was not committing suicide, he was murdered.
- qubex 10y agoPrecisely. Thanks for summarising it so succinctly and truthfully.
- shiven 10y agoSo why the collective censorship? There is no such censoring of "murder" news.
- electic 10y agoI never said he was committing suicide, I said he was a victim of circumstance. Even if he did intentionally jump, it wasn't a bad thing our society makes it out to be. We will never know either way.
- dredmorbius 10y agoHe was doomed to die no matter what. He was doomed due to the deliberate and malevoloent actions of others. He either chose, or was unable to overcome psychological impulses, to act in a way that he took his own life. I'm looking at a definition of suicide that includes the word "voluntary", which could well be contested given the extreme threat and lack of alternative here. At the same time, I do not personally see all suicide as unwarranted, wrong, or sinful (though there are cases in which I'd strongly prefer people didn't kill themselves). The Falling Man, and the many others who similarly lept from the Twin Towers, and those who similarly take their lives in the face of desperate circumstances are what they are. In many cases the label "suicide" fits. I don't find it dishonourable. But causality and life are complicated, words express ideas, and ideas are our own mental models. If you trace events back to original causes you find numerous complications at ascribing simple terms and unambiguous labels to them. Sometimes the ambiguity is greater, sometimes lesser. Describing these particular deaths as both murder and suicide strikes me as defensible.
- jomamaxx 10y agoI obviously understand the nuanced issue regarding the fact that he technically took his own life. But given that is death was absolutely imminent within a few minutes, I really don't think this is a case of 'suicide' in any of the remotely classical scenarios. It's not 'suicide' in any reasonable sense of the term.
- jomamaxx 10y ago99% of misery is caused by humans. Most people who commit suicide are not objectively in situations of extreme difficulty. Many wealthy, successful people commit prison. Surely, negative conditions are correlated with suicide, but it's not the driver. It's a psychological/spiritual issue.