11 ms·

Some of it can be explained by trends and name recognition, as other comments suggest -- e.g. you get far more reactions to "We went to the Grand Canyon!" or "w

by niftich 10y ago

Some of it can be explained by trends and name recognition, as other comments suggest -- e.g. you get far more reactions to "We went to the Grand Canyon!" or "we went to Zion National Park!" than to "We hiked to Bluebell Knoll, the highest point of Dixie National Forest!" But another part is definitely facilities. Being not originally from the US but having been to large parts of it, I was incredulous when I found out that BLM public land literally means just that -- that you can drive onto it and do stuff within reason; this is such a powerful concept that I -- and others -- often don't know what to do with it. It's definitely an easier expenditure of mental energy to go to a big-name National Park, pay the fee, get the map, go to the Visitor Center, go to the big lookout and vistas, and leave with the magnet and the hat -- and I say this without intending to disparage this style of tourism. I lack the outdoorsy know-how and wisdom to feel at ease on the backroads of the desert southwest (and I live too far away from the backroads of the rugged northwest) where most of these facilities are, and it's a nice (albeit somewhat fictitious) thought that when you stick to the approved big tourist roads at big tourist places, that you're not completely alone in nature at the mercy of the elements.

codeddesign 10y ago
Not to mention tours, accessible restrooms, refreshments...etc. it also has to do with advertising. If I am planning a trip, I have never heard of Bluebell knoll but I have certainly heard of Yosemite. I live in rural appalachia. There are a thousand state parks and 2 national parks by me. The locals know where the best places are. Tourist tend to go where ease of access (picnic tables, maps, refreshments, etc), and accommodations. Highly trafficked parks are also geared towards tourists and are heavily more well funded. People in general like comforts when they are away from home.
- semi-extrinsic 10y ago
  > restrooms, refreshments Hiking: you're doing it wrong. Seriously, if you don't have to at least pee outdoors, it's not a hike.
  - SwellJoe 10y ago
    I think "accessible" was the important part of that comment. People with limited mobility may not have the privilege of having a pee outdoors; at least, not comfortably. While I love to hike, including way off the beaten path, it's worth recognizing that not everyone is able-bodied enough to take advantage of those aspects of our parks. So, it's totally cool that National Parks provide a means for folks with limited mobility to safely see some of our nation's most beautiful places. And, it's a valid reason to visit the obvious parks rather than going off on your own in lonely places.
13of40 10y ago
> BLM public land literally means just that National Forest land too. I grew up as the child of a federal employee in rural eastern Oregon, and I got a solid taste for "I can ride my dirt bike 50 miles in any direction and do whatever I want." Sadly, where I live now, I need to carry three different parking passes in my car depending on where I want to go hiking on the weekend, and somehow the $50K I pay in taxes every year can't absorb the fees of these things - I need to remember to go prostrate myself at each office every year to get them...
donw 10y ago
> I lack the outdoorsy know-how and wisdom to feel at ease on the backroads of the desert southwest. This is one of the reasons that I am glad I was a Scout and spent a lot of time in the backcountry. I grew up thinking that this is how everybody grows up, but having lived in several major world cities, it has never ceased to amaze me how few city-folk know any fundamental outdoor skills. Selecting a campsite, leaving no trace when you leave, water purification and management, building and containing campfires, land navigation with a map and compass, how to safely use a rifle, knife use and maintenance, first aid... I learned all of these as a kid. Spending that time "roughing it" really helps you appreciate the benefits of both preserving nature, as well as the wonders of modern civilization. It also builds some serious self-reliance skills, which have served me well in life. Maybe we need a program similar to Scouting, but for adults that have lived all of their lives in or around cities? Would help to bridge the urban-rural divide in both directions. Does such a thing exist?
- monk_e_boy 10y ago
  > it has never ceased to amaze me how few city-folk know any fundamental outdoor skills. In our local area we have several drownings a year, tourists who don't understand the power of the ocean. That and people falling off cliffs. Our education system (UK) is very out of touch with nature. Very few students get to swim in the ocean, climb a cliff, light a fire or camp out in the woods.
  - k-mcgrady 10y ago
    >> "Our education system (UK)" The UK isn't big but I don't think you can generalise here because my experience is very different. Scout groups seem very popular (so popular it's really difficult to get your kid a place in one), schools offer the optional Duke of Edinburgh award which teaches camping/orienteering and is pretty popular, and in the UK a hell of a lot of people live pretty close to the ocean and know how to use it safely (surfing is very popular in Ireland and south cost of England/Welsh coast). When I was younger my friends and I would go camping a few times a year as did many other groups of friends (the reason was mostly so we could get drunk without getting caught but still we hiked 12 hours to get there, figured out how to cook, get water, build a fire, pitch tents etc.). On the other hand I've been pretty shocked this Summer that every sunny weekend it seems half a dozen people get killed in the ocean here. I'm only in my mid-20's but maybe the education system has been lacking in recent years to cause this? Or is it maybe that kids don't play outdoors very much anymore so don't have an easy way to learn and practice the skills? In the 90's video games were just hitting/becoming affordable so we could build huts in fields, play football everyday, ride bikes, play on building sites, camp several times a year. Looking at younger family members they don't do any of these things. Maybe it's not education but lack of practice. Schools can teach you how to swim but if you never actually go to the ocean or a pool after learning you're going to be out of practice when you go and try to swim in the ocean in the summer.
grecy 10y ago
> I lack the outdoorsy know-how and wisdom to feel at ease on the backroads of the desert southwest Please don't let this stop you. It's like people saying they can't go hiking because they can't afford "hiking boots". Whatever shoes you already wear every day are fine enough to get out there to start! Throw a tent, a little stove and a box of food in your car and get out there. Maybe stick closer to bigger roads to start so you can always walk back if you car breaks down, but please get out there! You'll figure out how to put your tent up after a few tries, and as long as you've got some food and water, you'll be fine.
- enraged_camel 10y ago
  Be careful with this kind of advice. I'm an experienced camper/backpacker. The wilderness can be a dangerous place for beginners, even if they are just "car camping." For example, the Mohave (where I backpacked/camped/rock-climbed for seven years) has 18 species of rattlesnakes, and one of those is the Mohave rattlesnake, which carries one of the most lethal rattlesnake venoms in the world. Food, water and shelter aren't enough for camping. You also need: flashlight with spare batteries, a map of the surrounding region, a compass, extra clothing, sun protection and a first-aid kit. It's also a good idea to know where the nearest ranger station is so that you can haul ass there in case of an emergency.
  - grecy 10y ago
    This kind of advice really irks me. You're discouraging people from even starting. They don't need all that gear and experience to get out and try it - in all honsety their first night will be just off a road next to their car - are they really going to get in trouble from not having a flashlight and map and compass? Just sleep in the car. > the Mohave (where I backpacked/camped/rock-climbed for seven years) has 18 species of rattlesnakes, and one of those is the Mohave rattlesnake, which carries one of the most lethal rattlesnake venoms in the world. Awesome! how many times did you see one? How many times were you in danger of being bitten? Quoting facts like that doesn't help teach people the realities of camping. Chances are the vast majority of people will never see one. For reference, I'm from Australia, and lived in the Yukon for 4 years, hiking, camping and canoeing all over remote Yukon and Alaska. I've been face to face with bears about 10 times, seen tons of deadly snakes, waded across waist deep glacier melt rivers, etc. etc. I camped most nights from Alaska to Argentina, and now I'm camping my way around Africa. I've hiked many of the worlds most famous multi-day hiking trips. I've spent something like 1000 nights in a tent in my life. Stop discouraging people from trying. Soon you'll be telling people they can't try swimming without buying goggles, they can't try golf without buying clubs and thousands of dollars of lessons from a pro, and they can't learn to drive without buying their own $30k car. Encourage people to try something new. They don't have to start out in a store - they have to start out doing.

by niftich 10y ago

codeddesign 10y ago

Not to mention tours, accessible restrooms, refreshments...etc. it also has to do with advertising. If I am planning a trip, I have never heard of Bluebell knoll but I have certainly heard of Yosemite. I live in rural appalachia. There are a thousand state parks and 2 national parks by me. The locals know where the best places are. Tourist tend to go where ease of access (picnic tables, maps, refreshments, etc), and accommodations. Highly trafficked parks are also geared towards tourists and are heavily more well funded. People in general like comforts when they are away from home.

semi-extrinsic 10y ago
> restrooms, refreshments Hiking: you're doing it wrong. Seriously, if you don't have to at least pee outdoors, it's not a hike.
- SwellJoe 10y ago
  I think "accessible" was the important part of that comment. People with limited mobility may not have the privilege of having a pee outdoors; at least, not comfortably. While I love to hike, including way off the beaten path, it's worth recognizing that not everyone is able-bodied enough to take advantage of those aspects of our parks. So, it's totally cool that National Parks provide a means for folks with limited mobility to safely see some of our nation's most beautiful places. And, it's a valid reason to visit the obvious parks rather than going off on your own in lonely places.

13of40 10y ago

> BLM public land literally means just that National Forest land too. I grew up as the child of a federal employee in rural eastern Oregon, and I got a solid taste for "I can ride my dirt bike 50 miles in any direction and do whatever I want." Sadly, where I live now, I need to carry three different parking passes in my car depending on where I want to go hiking on the weekend, and somehow the $50K I pay in taxes every year can't absorb the fees of these things - I need to remember to go prostrate myself at each office every year to get them...

donw 10y ago

> I lack the outdoorsy know-how and wisdom to feel at ease on the backroads of the desert southwest. This is one of the reasons that I am glad I was a Scout and spent a lot of time in the backcountry. I grew up thinking that this is how everybody grows up, but having lived in several major world cities, it has never ceased to amaze me how few city-folk know any fundamental outdoor skills. Selecting a campsite, leaving no trace when you leave, water purification and management, building and containing campfires, land navigation with a map and compass, how to safely use a rifle, knife use and maintenance, first aid... I learned all of these as a kid. Spending that time "roughing it" really helps you appreciate the benefits of both preserving nature, as well as the wonders of modern civilization. It also builds some serious self-reliance skills, which have served me well in life. Maybe we need a program similar to Scouting, but for adults that have lived all of their lives in or around cities? Would help to bridge the urban-rural divide in both directions. Does such a thing exist?

monk_e_boy 10y ago
> it has never ceased to amaze me how few city-folk know any fundamental outdoor skills. In our local area we have several drownings a year, tourists who don't understand the power of the ocean. That and people falling off cliffs. Our education system (UK) is very out of touch with nature. Very few students get to swim in the ocean, climb a cliff, light a fire or camp out in the woods.
- k-mcgrady 10y ago
  >> "Our education system (UK)" The UK isn't big but I don't think you can generalise here because my experience is very different. Scout groups seem very popular (so popular it's really difficult to get your kid a place in one), schools offer the optional Duke of Edinburgh award which teaches camping/orienteering and is pretty popular, and in the UK a hell of a lot of people live pretty close to the ocean and know how to use it safely (surfing is very popular in Ireland and south cost of England/Welsh coast). When I was younger my friends and I would go camping a few times a year as did many other groups of friends (the reason was mostly so we could get drunk without getting caught but still we hiked 12 hours to get there, figured out how to cook, get water, build a fire, pitch tents etc.). On the other hand I've been pretty shocked this Summer that every sunny weekend it seems half a dozen people get killed in the ocean here. I'm only in my mid-20's but maybe the education system has been lacking in recent years to cause this? Or is it maybe that kids don't play outdoors very much anymore so don't have an easy way to learn and practice the skills? In the 90's video games were just hitting/becoming affordable so we could build huts in fields, play football everyday, ride bikes, play on building sites, camp several times a year. Looking at younger family members they don't do any of these things. Maybe it's not education but lack of practice. Schools can teach you how to swim but if you never actually go to the ocean or a pool after learning you're going to be out of practice when you go and try to swim in the ocean in the summer.

grecy 10y ago

> I lack the outdoorsy know-how and wisdom to feel at ease on the backroads of the desert southwest Please don't let this stop you. It's like people saying they can't go hiking because they can't afford "hiking boots". Whatever shoes you already wear every day are fine enough to get out there to start! Throw a tent, a little stove and a box of food in your car and get out there. Maybe stick closer to bigger roads to start so you can always walk back if you car breaks down, but please get out there! You'll figure out how to put your tent up after a few tries, and as long as you've got some food and water, you'll be fine.

enraged_camel 10y ago
Be careful with this kind of advice. I'm an experienced camper/backpacker. The wilderness can be a dangerous place for beginners, even if they are just "car camping." For example, the Mohave (where I backpacked/camped/rock-climbed for seven years) has 18 species of rattlesnakes, and one of those is the Mohave rattlesnake, which carries one of the most lethal rattlesnake venoms in the world. Food, water and shelter aren't enough for camping. You also need: flashlight with spare batteries, a map of the surrounding region, a compass, extra clothing, sun protection and a first-aid kit. It's also a good idea to know where the nearest ranger station is so that you can haul ass there in case of an emergency.
- grecy 10y ago
  This kind of advice really irks me. You're discouraging people from even starting. They don't need all that gear and experience to get out and try it - in all honsety their first night will be just off a road next to their car - are they really going to get in trouble from not having a flashlight and map and compass? Just sleep in the car. > the Mohave (where I backpacked/camped/rock-climbed for seven years) has 18 species of rattlesnakes, and one of those is the Mohave rattlesnake, which carries one of the most lethal rattlesnake venoms in the world. Awesome! how many times did you see one? How many times were you in danger of being bitten? Quoting facts like that doesn't help teach people the realities of camping. Chances are the vast majority of people will never see one. For reference, I'm from Australia, and lived in the Yukon for 4 years, hiking, camping and canoeing all over remote Yukon and Alaska. I've been face to face with bears about 10 times, seen tons of deadly snakes, waded across waist deep glacier melt rivers, etc. etc. I camped most nights from Alaska to Argentina, and now I'm camping my way around Africa. I've hiked many of the worlds most famous multi-day hiking trips. I've spent something like 1000 nights in a tent in my life. Stop discouraging people from trying. Soon you'll be telling people they can't try swimming without buying goggles, they can't try golf without buying clubs and thousands of dollars of lessons from a pro, and they can't learn to drive without buying their own $30k car. Encourage people to try something new. They don't have to start out in a store - they have to start out doing.