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> However something else is also a fact. That growth over the last 3 centuries in almost every area catapulted Europeans to incredible, almost seemingly impossi
by rulegoon 10y ago
> However something else is also a fact. That growth over the last 3 centuries in almost every area catapulted Europeans to incredible, almost seemingly impossible levels of economic success with respect to previous history.
Have you looked deeper into what fueled this "incredible/impossible" growth you're so proud of?
It was the disruption, colonization and then plunder of the resources of other societies around the world, which hit Africa the hardest.
The Europeans at the time invented the gun, which gave them lethal military advantage over other cultures that still used spears and swords for warfare.
This, coupled with their ruthless drive to amass wealth led to ridiculous situations where an army of just 50 gun totting soldiers could slaughter 1000 warriors in just 30 minutes.
And slaughter they did, and after the slaughter came the plunder. Not only their minerals and crops, but their people as well.
Many of their healthy, strong young African men and women were sold off into slavery in the middle east, Europe and Americas.
And lets be honest: this plunder and disruption was very easy for them to do, since the Europeans of the time did not really consider Africans human.
Maybe the Asians, but definitely not the Africans. Many were treated worse than horses or dogs.
Go read up on what king Leopold of Belgium did at the Congo.
If you still could not work hard or fast enough after all the whippings, your fingers, the hands and limbs would be chopped off.
This is called trauma. Whole generations of African communities were brutalized and traumatized just 100 years ago.
If you don't know untreated trauma does to the human psyche, or how it can be passed from generation to generation, go ask your local therapist.
And I'm sorry African society doesn't seem to be recovering fast enough for you, maybe they are not just as "strong/civilized" as you are.
> This success has also been incredibly specific geographically, with the Far East only coming up in the last few decades, a delay I attribute to the retardation that was Communism.
Really? What metrics are you using to measure this success? You seem to be using per capita income, which means you don't get simple economics. You're basically saying that someone earning 1000 US dollars in New York is on par with someone earning the same in rural Texas. The United Nations HDI index paints a very different picture, putting Africa more or less at par with Asia, and Europe on top. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Dev.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Dev....
> Western media constantly harps on positive news from the frontier.
> Western media has a very strong bias against negative news about Africa for political reasons.
Hahaha! Don't make me laugh. Whats most likely happening here is the few positive stories you've stumbled upon have just blown your mind and worldview, so you think its happening evrywhere because those are the ones you remember. For every one positive, you'll find another 20 negative from that same western media outlet.
> We have to call a spade a spade. Africa is the most backward place in the world. Most growth that exists is obviously non-organic, relying on extensive networks of foreign
> coordination and siloed off resource extraction. This is an entire Continent that has not experienced an agricultural revolution let alone an industrial one. The level of
> corruption is hard to comprehend because it is the norm and not the exception.
Once again, whats the metric for measuring the backwardness of a place? If its the western way of life and values, I agree with you 100%. And I don't think it would be a good idea for Africans to wholesomely adopt all those values, just the ones that work. Understand this: in terms of natural and human resources, Africa is the richest most abundant planet on this continent. In terms of consumption of these resources, its people are the last. Why? For the same reason that the CEO of a successful company earns in one day what his/her personal secretary earns in a year. Is it fair? No, but that's just how the world works: wealth brings power, and that power is used to enforce and maintain the status quo. The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer. As it is for individuals, so is it for nations. The CEO's of African nations are its leaders, and they work with the CEOs global corporations to continue the plunder of the continent. There are thousands of Africans who have enough money to buy you, your mother and the whole street you live in; and live a life of untold luxury and comfort that would put yours to shame, right in the heart of Africa. There partners in corruption and plunder are the leaders of western governments and corporations. The same corporations that own the media, and YOUR 18th century views about Africa, which is why I find your comment about positive western media hilarious. That's just good old fashioned prejudice and ignorance.
Your great grandfather had an excuse for his ignorance, you don't. Go find out where the coffee you drink comes from (hint: its not from a pre-agrigarian revolution society)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_coffee_production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_coffee_pr...
- internaut 10y agoBroadly your position appears to be that Africa is not necessarily backward but that if it is definitely backward then this is the consequence of Europeans conquering their lands centuries ago and since there are no European colonies anymore we Europeans have been manipulating them in the present day through corporations as proxies, thus retarding their (already slow because colonization) progress. Is that an accurate summation? Because if it is then the following must be true. 1. There must be a strong relationship between colonization and poverty. After all, they are taking your things. 2. Nations or ethic groups that are conquered by aggressors take considerable time to recover, perhaps many generations. I repeat; is my summary accurate?
- jomamaxx 10y agoThe nations of Africa that have the most intact colonial apparatuses, and the most people with European ancestry - are the most wealthy. I'm not making a moral argument.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- rulegoon 10y ago> Broadly your position appears to be that Africa is not necessarily backward but that if it is definitely backward then this is the consequence of Europeans conquering their lands centuries ago Centuries ago? Most African states got independence just 50 years ago!! Get your timelines right. Broadly, my position is that there is nothing superior about Europeans or inferior and backward about Africans, which is the main thrust of your argument, is it not? That the problems and state of Africa today is simply caused by the backwardness and faults of its inhabitants, right? My position is that you are trying very hard to rationalize what are simply feelings good old fashioned prejudice, coupled with a lot of ignorance. I cannot > There must be a strong relationship between colonization and poverty. After all, they are taking your things. If the colonizers are racist taskmasters who view their subjects as some sort of sub-human species, the effects of colonization are devastating. Not just economically, but socially and culturally. For example, where do you think the practice of militias chopping off victims hands came from? Do you think such barbaric practices existed before the arrival of the European colonizer? > Nations or ethic groups that are conquered by aggressors take considerable time to recover, perhaps many generations. If your aim is to be accurate, then ask precise questions. What is "considerable time"?! Who are the aggressors? How are they treating their subjects? What social and cultural structures did they find coming in, and what did they leave behind when going? Who did they hand power over to when they "left"? What resources did they plunder? Its very easy to be hand-wavy and prejudiced when thinking broad, general terms. So do your homework, get more specific and your ignorance, and hopefully prejudice will disappear.