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What exactly are you talking about? Supporting your underage children is a moral responsibility in my book. If you're talking about filial responsibility laws

by zeroer 10y ago

What exactly are you talking about? Supporting your underage children is a moral responsibility in my book. If you're talking about filial responsibility laws, then yea, you have a point; it's somewhere that I disagree with the law. But fortunately, due to federal medicare support, these laws are rarely enforced. For face-to-face meetings and everything else, shitty family members should be shunned. I wish more people would tell their abusers to take a hike.

DasIch 10y ago
I'm not entirely sure on the laws in the US but in Germany the law basically considers parents to be responsible for their children and as the parents and children get older, eventually the children become responsible for the parents. I'd imagine it's similar in other countries. A lot of the time there isn't much or any consideration given in case of abusive relationships. Even though I think we both agree on the fact that in such a situation any ties both morally and legally should be severed.
- burkaman 10y ago
  About half of US states have laws like this. Sometimes it's a specific financial responsibility for medical bills or burial costs, sometimes it's a more general law like this one: https://malegislature.gov/laws/generallaws/partiv/titlei/chapter273/section20 https://malegislature.gov/laws/generallaws/partiv/titlei/cha... This Massachusetts law does excuse children who were not "reasonably supported" by their parents when they were a minor.
  - hga 10y ago
    Are these laws actually enforced? In addition to the one you point out, there's a host of loopholes I see in the bare bones law, "when such parent through misfortune and without fault of his own is destitute".
    - GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
      Yes : http://www.pacourts.us/assets/opinions/Superior/out/A36025_11.pdf http://www.pacourts.us/assets/opinions/Superior/out/A36025_1...
      - hga 10y ago
        Hmmm, well, I suppose it's a pity my mother's abuses left me poor and not very able to help pay her future out-of-state medical bills....
- hga 10y ago
  As I understand it, in the US in general (this area of law is more done at the state than Federal level), unless you take upon yourself the responsibility of taking care of one of your parents, in which case metrics of care come into play, you have absolutely no legal responsibilities to them (separated and/or divorced spouses are a whole nother and much more nasty can of worms). And those metrics of care most certainly do not include monetary contributions, just seeing that they get medical care, live in habitable lodgings, eat, etc. Or so is my understanding of Virginia state law, I have a friend who's taken up such a responsibility towards her mother along with another sibling, but her mother generally refuses to keep her appointments with doctors.... My friend is worried about the liability that might arise from this. burkaman believes otherwise ... but it'll be a cold day in hell before I accept anything WRT my mother like that (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12470409 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12470409), on the other hand, it wouldn't even need to be enforced by the law if it was my father....
  - burkaman 10y ago
    Virginia law is similar to the Massachusetts law in my other comment: http://law.justia.com/codes/virginia/2011/title20/chapter5/20-88 http://law.justia.com/codes/virginia/2011/title20/chapter5/2... You don't have any choice if you are able to support your parents and they are "in necessitous circumstances". However, Virginia is very clear about excusing victims of abuse: > This section shall not apply if there is substantial evidence of desertion, neglect, abuse or willful failure to support any such child by the father or mother, as the case may be, prior to the child's emancipation or, except as provided hereafter in this section, if a parent is otherwise eligible for and is receiving public assistance or services under a federal or state program.
    - hga 10y ago
      Hmmm, and what happens if the child is living in another state? (Although in this case it's just on the other side of the Beltway in Maryland.) My, that law is quite detailed, incorporates quite a bit more into it, and doesn't have the "through misfortune and without fault of his own" loophole. Yuck. Is it, are any of these seriously and rigorously enforced? Or are they perhaps used for internecine fighting between siblings and/or parents? ADDED: my home state of Missouri has not such law per ptaipale's citation (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12470488 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12470488), so that might be why I'm ignorant of the laws of the states that do so. Hmmm, what if you live in one of those no responsibility states and your parent in a responsibility state?
- ptaipale 10y ago
  Actually, this varies a lot depending on country, and in the US depending on state. In European Union, different member states have different practices. Germany and South European countries have laws and strong social norms that adult children must take care (or at least pay) for caring their old parents. Northern Europe does not (Nordic countries, Netherlands, Belgium, I understand Britain as well). According to [0], 28 U.S. states make adult children responsible for their parents if their parents can't afford to take care of themselves. In Russia, law also requires adult children to care for their parents (this I know for a fact due to an immigration case where I helped). In China caring for old parents is an important responsibility of children, but I do not know how that is formulated in law. [0] http://www.elderlawanswers.com/requiring-adult-children-to-pay-for-aging-parents-7666 http://www.elderlawanswers.com/requiring-adult-children-to-p...
  - gozur88 10y ago
    >In China caring for old parents is an important responsibility of children, but I do not know how that is formulated in law. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/china-parents-children-visit_us_570e5f96e4b08a2d32b8876a http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/china-parents-children-v...

by zeroer 10y ago

DasIch 10y ago

I'm not entirely sure on the laws in the US but in Germany the law basically considers parents to be responsible for their children and as the parents and children get older, eventually the children become responsible for the parents. I'd imagine it's similar in other countries. A lot of the time there isn't much or any consideration given in case of abusive relationships. Even though I think we both agree on the fact that in such a situation any ties both morally and legally should be severed.

burkaman 10y ago
About half of US states have laws like this. Sometimes it's a specific financial responsibility for medical bills or burial costs, sometimes it's a more general law like this one: https://malegislature.gov/laws/generallaws/partiv/titlei/chapter273/section20 https://malegislature.gov/laws/generallaws/partiv/titlei/cha... This Massachusetts law does excuse children who were not "reasonably supported" by their parents when they were a minor.
- hga 10y ago
  Are these laws actually enforced? In addition to the one you point out, there's a host of loopholes I see in the bare bones law, "when such parent through misfortune and without fault of his own is destitute".
  - GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
    Yes : http://www.pacourts.us/assets/opinions/Superior/out/A36025_11.pdf http://www.pacourts.us/assets/opinions/Superior/out/A36025_1...
    - hga 10y ago
      Hmmm, well, I suppose it's a pity my mother's abuses left me poor and not very able to help pay her future out-of-state medical bills....
hga 10y ago
As I understand it, in the US in general (this area of law is more done at the state than Federal level), unless you take upon yourself the responsibility of taking care of one of your parents, in which case metrics of care come into play, you have absolutely no legal responsibilities to them (separated and/or divorced spouses are a whole nother and much more nasty can of worms). And those metrics of care most certainly do not include monetary contributions, just seeing that they get medical care, live in habitable lodgings, eat, etc. Or so is my understanding of Virginia state law, I have a friend who's taken up such a responsibility towards her mother along with another sibling, but her mother generally refuses to keep her appointments with doctors.... My friend is worried about the liability that might arise from this. burkaman believes otherwise ... but it'll be a cold day in hell before I accept anything WRT my mother like that (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12470409 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12470409), on the other hand, it wouldn't even need to be enforced by the law if it was my father....
- burkaman 10y ago
  Virginia law is similar to the Massachusetts law in my other comment: http://law.justia.com/codes/virginia/2011/title20/chapter5/20-88 http://law.justia.com/codes/virginia/2011/title20/chapter5/2... You don't have any choice if you are able to support your parents and they are "in necessitous circumstances". However, Virginia is very clear about excusing victims of abuse: > This section shall not apply if there is substantial evidence of desertion, neglect, abuse or willful failure to support any such child by the father or mother, as the case may be, prior to the child's emancipation or, except as provided hereafter in this section, if a parent is otherwise eligible for and is receiving public assistance or services under a federal or state program.
  - hga 10y ago
    Hmmm, and what happens if the child is living in another state? (Although in this case it's just on the other side of the Beltway in Maryland.) My, that law is quite detailed, incorporates quite a bit more into it, and doesn't have the "through misfortune and without fault of his own" loophole. Yuck. Is it, are any of these seriously and rigorously enforced? Or are they perhaps used for internecine fighting between siblings and/or parents? ADDED: my home state of Missouri has not such law per ptaipale's citation (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12470488 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12470488), so that might be why I'm ignorant of the laws of the states that do so. Hmmm, what if you live in one of those no responsibility states and your parent in a responsibility state?
ptaipale 10y ago
Actually, this varies a lot depending on country, and in the US depending on state. In European Union, different member states have different practices. Germany and South European countries have laws and strong social norms that adult children must take care (or at least pay) for caring their old parents. Northern Europe does not (Nordic countries, Netherlands, Belgium, I understand Britain as well). According to [0], 28 U.S. states make adult children responsible for their parents if their parents can't afford to take care of themselves. In Russia, law also requires adult children to care for their parents (this I know for a fact due to an immigration case where I helped). In China caring for old parents is an important responsibility of children, but I do not know how that is formulated in law. [0] http://www.elderlawanswers.com/requiring-adult-children-to-pay-for-aging-parents-7666 http://www.elderlawanswers.com/requiring-adult-children-to-p...
- gozur88 10y ago
  >In China caring for old parents is an important responsibility of children, but I do not know how that is formulated in law. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/china-parents-children-visit_us_570e5f96e4b08a2d32b8876a http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/china-parents-children-v...