4 ms·

Bringing Down a Copycat Site

142 points by mixmax 17y ago

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
- Dellort 17y ago
  How many exactly?
akirk 17y ago
It adds a somewhat funny touch that the guy actually responded, and also what he had to say. Sounded like a 15-year old. Still very annoying and nice to read that Nigel managed to get the site down. Also nice to see that the software is still being developed, more than 5 years later :)
- kunley 17y ago
  Unfortunately, it did sound like typical grown person there -- by mid-asian standards.
  - palish 17y ago
    Not sure why he's being downvoted. As an avid gamer, I can verify that most foreigners who speak English don't care enough to try to write properly. I'm not bashing, I'm just saying, from my observed experience, that is the case. For example, I once bought virtual money for an online game called Ragnarok Online. The sellers I interacted with appeared to be from China, and they all spoke pretty much like the guy in the article. These were probably adults, since they had accounts to receive (real-life) money transferred to them. And this is just one example over many years of gaming. So based on experience, I wouldn't be surprised at all to find that he was in fact at least 20-30 years old. Does any of this matter? Nope. I'm just trying to work up the motivation to implement a particularly annoying feature, so I'm chilling here talking about randomness. :)
    - akkartik 17y ago
      I know what you mean, but I put it down to people new to the internet. They often are bad at typing so take shortcuts like 'u', and they've never written before as much as one does online. Within a year or two there's definite improvement in my experience; practice with touch typing and with composing text. Country has nothing to do with it IMO, except that the US rarely sees people in their 20s discovering the internet for the first time.
    - viraptor 17y ago
      Is it really because of a different country? Just have a look at trending twitter posts sometime. Some examples from grownups (judging from the pictures) visible right now: "dam why she my biggest fan", "doin' ur 4ends mom", "yur teaachers tryna fcck yu", "u wanna slap da smell outta ppl...? I swear i will slap da #FUNK outta every wet white person in dis f'n class..." Those were all examples from people who say they're from US. I wasn't even looking for bad examples - they were on one screen. I know there's a difference between weird spelling used by natives and bad grammar from others, but a bad example in one place enables more bad behaviour in another. In some online games I couldn't tell a native English speaker from other people, because they don't care to write properly.
    - kunley 17y ago
      Well I was not referring to a lack of proper English grammar. I was thinking about a specific mindset which could be summarized as: "Everybody's cheating around and I will try my little not-so-smart cheats on you too. That's how everybody behaves so don't tell me it's a problem". And this is (sadly) mid-Asian standard. Especially when you get there physically.
      - palish 17y ago
        Wow, really? I had no idea that attitude carried over to real life. I mean, I could make the observation that most Asians seemed to behave that way online in a game, but I didn't realize that they mostly behaved like that in real life too. Of course this is all just hearsay...
ck2 17y ago
They should have used the DMCA. You don't go to the registrar, you go to the host. You can takedown nearly any site hosted in the USA within a few hours these days (even with content you don't actually own, if you don't mind being counter-noticed or even sued).
- zaph0d 17y ago
  If you RTFA, you will notice that the site was hosted in the great country of Pakistan.
  - ErrantX 17y ago
    check the link to /. at the bottom; in the end it turns out the host was based in the US
  - techiferous 17y ago
    "If you RTFA" Downvoted for unfriendliness.
wesley 17y ago
Anyone know of any online tools to find those copycat sites? I know there's www.copyscape.com, but is there something similar for graphics/logos?
- sili 17y ago
  www.tineye.com lets you search for images online based on one you provide.
acangiano 17y ago
This is a great story. However, I hate how the fraudster didn't do any jail time.
- lallysingh 17y ago
  Welcome to the international community. Just be happy he didn't get elected or promoted.
vaksel 17y ago
i give it a week before the copy cat site adds the software back.
- paraschopra 17y ago
  I guess the article is from year 2004?
  - vaksel 17y ago
    so it is...still anyone smart enough to try to fake a response from a host...would at least try to wait a little bit before putting the software back up, after the other person stops looking.
dcx 17y ago
I found the below comment on the 2004 slashdot discussion. IMO this is the best way to handle this - thought it would add value to discussion on HN (edit - formatting): "1. Immediately(!) purchase the stolen software, using a Mastercard or Visa. The resulting download is evidence, and the purchase itself will be used later. Make every effort to identify who (URL, domain name, contact info, company name, etc.) is actually processing this credit card transaction (hint: it's usually not the kid in Pakistan). 2. Notify the contact info of the domain of the infringement. Use a DMCA-compliant notification. 3. Notify the next upstream ISP of that domain of same. 4. Notify the domain's registrar. Some have TOS which forbid illegal activity. 5. Is the bad guy still up? Then start notifying the credit card processor that they have participated in a sale of stolen goods. Use a letter that calmly documents the date of purchase, how you identified the download as a stolen copy of your software, etc. 6. When your credit card bill arrives, follow the instructions on the back of the bill to contest that purchase. Inform the credit card company of everything that's happened, including dates and times and copies of correspondence 7. Join the ASP [asp-shareware.org]. It's a chance to notify fellow software producers that their software is being ripped off along with yours (and increase the pressure on a particular pirate site). It's also a way of supporting an organization that works to support your right to make a living selling software. The linchpin in this effort is credit card processing. I don't care if you live on a small island that you rule yourself, if you take Mastercard/Visa transactions, you rely on American companies and American law. These giant companies grant smaller companies the right to parcel out merchant accounts, and they can cause non-trivial financial pain for merchant accounts that generate too many complaints for them. The wheels of the law can take much time to grind to a conclusion, and not always in your favor. Visa/Mastercard can issue a $20,000 fine in a much shorter time, and they don't have to consult a jury. In the Wild West of Internet fraud that involves money flow, Mastercard/Visa is judge, jury, and executioner. Most victims simply don't know enough to bring their case to them, or the amount of fraud would be dropping." http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=134264&cid=11211953 http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=134264&cid=1121...
- ErrantX 17y ago
  I read that and initially thought the same. But in one of his emails the guy asks for a trade of "cards"; I think he's meaning card details. I would hesitate to give him active credit card details.... almost certainly they would go on file ready to sell to someone. (though for the period of time it would take to sort this out your probably ok - I would cancel it straight after though)
pingou 17y ago
Looks like it's sometimes fair to judge people based on their spelling.
jrockway 17y ago
What about getting a default judgment? This could be annoying if the fraudster ever wants to visit the US or work here under an H1-B, etc. (Don't know if that is possible or not, but if it is, I would be satisfied with that. Google de-lists the site, and the fraudster has an open warrant for credit card fraud if he leaves his home country.)

142 points by mixmax 17y ago

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

Dellort 17y ago
How many exactly?

akirk 17y ago

It adds a somewhat funny touch that the guy actually responded, and also what he had to say. Sounded like a 15-year old. Still very annoying and nice to read that Nigel managed to get the site down. Also nice to see that the software is still being developed, more than 5 years later :)

kunley 17y ago
Unfortunately, it did sound like typical grown person there -- by mid-asian standards.
- palish 17y ago
  Not sure why he's being downvoted. As an avid gamer, I can verify that most foreigners who speak English don't care enough to try to write properly. I'm not bashing, I'm just saying, from my observed experience, that is the case. For example, I once bought virtual money for an online game called Ragnarok Online. The sellers I interacted with appeared to be from China, and they all spoke pretty much like the guy in the article. These were probably adults, since they had accounts to receive (real-life) money transferred to them. And this is just one example over many years of gaming. So based on experience, I wouldn't be surprised at all to find that he was in fact at least 20-30 years old. Does any of this matter? Nope. I'm just trying to work up the motivation to implement a particularly annoying feature, so I'm chilling here talking about randomness. :)
  - akkartik 17y ago
    I know what you mean, but I put it down to people new to the internet. They often are bad at typing so take shortcuts like 'u', and they've never written before as much as one does online. Within a year or two there's definite improvement in my experience; practice with touch typing and with composing text. Country has nothing to do with it IMO, except that the US rarely sees people in their 20s discovering the internet for the first time.
  - viraptor 17y ago
    Is it really because of a different country? Just have a look at trending twitter posts sometime. Some examples from grownups (judging from the pictures) visible right now: "dam why she my biggest fan", "doin' ur 4ends mom", "yur teaachers tryna fcck yu", "u wanna slap da smell outta ppl...? I swear i will slap da #FUNK outta every wet white person in dis f'n class..." Those were all examples from people who say they're from US. I wasn't even looking for bad examples - they were on one screen. I know there's a difference between weird spelling used by natives and bad grammar from others, but a bad example in one place enables more bad behaviour in another. In some online games I couldn't tell a native English speaker from other people, because they don't care to write properly.
  - kunley 17y ago
    Well I was not referring to a lack of proper English grammar. I was thinking about a specific mindset which could be summarized as: "Everybody's cheating around and I will try my little not-so-smart cheats on you too. That's how everybody behaves so don't tell me it's a problem". And this is (sadly) mid-Asian standard. Especially when you get there physically.
    - palish 17y ago
      Wow, really? I had no idea that attitude carried over to real life. I mean, I could make the observation that most Asians seemed to behave that way online in a game, but I didn't realize that they mostly behaved like that in real life too. Of course this is all just hearsay...

ck2 17y ago

They should have used the DMCA. You don't go to the registrar, you go to the host. You can takedown nearly any site hosted in the USA within a few hours these days (even with content you don't actually own, if you don't mind being counter-noticed or even sued).

zaph0d 17y ago
If you RTFA, you will notice that the site was hosted in the great country of Pakistan.
- ErrantX 17y ago
  check the link to /. at the bottom; in the end it turns out the host was based in the US
- techiferous 17y ago
  "If you RTFA" Downvoted for unfriendliness.

wesley 17y ago

Anyone know of any online tools to find those copycat sites? I know there's www.copyscape.com, but is there something similar for graphics/logos?

sili 17y ago
www.tineye.com lets you search for images online based on one you provide.

acangiano 17y ago

This is a great story. However, I hate how the fraudster didn't do any jail time.

lallysingh 17y ago
Welcome to the international community. Just be happy he didn't get elected or promoted.

vaksel 17y ago

i give it a week before the copy cat site adds the software back.

paraschopra 17y ago
I guess the article is from year 2004?
- vaksel 17y ago
  so it is...still anyone smart enough to try to fake a response from a host...would at least try to wait a little bit before putting the software back up, after the other person stops looking.

dcx 17y ago

I found the below comment on the 2004 slashdot discussion. IMO this is the best way to handle this - thought it would add value to discussion on HN (edit - formatting): "1. Immediately(!) purchase the stolen software, using a Mastercard or Visa. The resulting download is evidence, and the purchase itself will be used later. Make every effort to identify who (URL, domain name, contact info, company name, etc.) is actually processing this credit card transaction (hint: it's usually not the kid in Pakistan). 2. Notify the contact info of the domain of the infringement. Use a DMCA-compliant notification. 3. Notify the next upstream ISP of that domain of same. 4. Notify the domain's registrar. Some have TOS which forbid illegal activity. 5. Is the bad guy still up? Then start notifying the credit card processor that they have participated in a sale of stolen goods. Use a letter that calmly documents the date of purchase, how you identified the download as a stolen copy of your software, etc. 6. When your credit card bill arrives, follow the instructions on the back of the bill to contest that purchase. Inform the credit card company of everything that's happened, including dates and times and copies of correspondence 7. Join the ASP [asp-shareware.org]. It's a chance to notify fellow software producers that their software is being ripped off along with yours (and increase the pressure on a particular pirate site). It's also a way of supporting an organization that works to support your right to make a living selling software. The linchpin in this effort is credit card processing. I don't care if you live on a small island that you rule yourself, if you take Mastercard/Visa transactions, you rely on American companies and American law. These giant companies grant smaller companies the right to parcel out merchant accounts, and they can cause non-trivial financial pain for merchant accounts that generate too many complaints for them. The wheels of the law can take much time to grind to a conclusion, and not always in your favor. Visa/Mastercard can issue a $20,000 fine in a much shorter time, and they don't have to consult a jury. In the Wild West of Internet fraud that involves money flow, Mastercard/Visa is judge, jury, and executioner. Most victims simply don't know enough to bring their case to them, or the amount of fraud would be dropping." http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=134264&cid=11211953 http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=134264&cid=1121...

ErrantX 17y ago
I read that and initially thought the same. But in one of his emails the guy asks for a trade of "cards"; I think he's meaning card details. I would hesitate to give him active credit card details.... almost certainly they would go on file ready to sell to someone. (though for the period of time it would take to sort this out your probably ok - I would cancel it straight after though)

pingou 17y ago

Looks like it's sometimes fair to judge people based on their spelling.

jrockway 17y ago

What about getting a default judgment? This could be annoying if the fraudster ever wants to visit the US or work here under an H1-B, etc. (Don't know if that is possible or not, but if it is, I would be satisfied with that. Google de-lists the site, and the fraudster has an open warrant for credit card fraud if he leaves his home country.)