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That is something I had never considered. If many people become dependent on UBI, they are entirely dependent on the state - to the point they can be taken adva

That is something I had never considered. If many people become dependent on UBI, they are entirely dependent on the state - to the point they can be taken advantage of if power is abused. UBI in some ways does take an element of freedom from people, granted it may provide other forms of freedom. What is to stop the government from changing the laws to require everyone only on UBI (no job) to perform some form of community service for a set number of hours per year. What i to stop the government from increasing it further? So whilst you may gain security for the basic living needs, you may trade it for a less freedom.

ahoy 10y ago
The same thing that, presumably, stops government from doing those things now - voters. That's not to say that system of checks works. Places like Florida have enacted mandatory drug testing for welfare recipients, so there's obviously some political will to punish and regulate the poor.
- elementalest 10y ago
  It not the kind of thing that would happen suddenly, but gradually. A little change here, a little change there and after 10 years, its changed a lot. All it would take is the right political climate and circumstances, combined with ad campaigns and lots of lobbying. Many arguments would be put forth to convince people a minor change is a good thing, that due to the current circumstances, its necessary. Many people would likely agree, despite the risk it opens up the potential for the system to be abused with another minor change in the future. And its voted through by popular demand. A few years later, the political climate changes and the government isn't perhaps as trustworthy/predictable as it might have once been. Now of course it could go the other way. However, power creep rarely goes backwards.
- oxide 10y ago
  >Florida have enacted mandatory drug testing for welfare recipients which is, ironically, the kind of Big Government bullshit the right-wing in this country claims to want less of. it's hypocritical.
ahoy 10y ago
The same thing that, presumably, stops government from doing those things now - voters. That's not to say that system of checks works. Places like Florida have enacted mandatory drug testing for welfare recipients, so there's obviously some political will to punish and regulate the poor.
undersuit 10y ago
Not that it's a real deterrent... but if you have a requirement for UBI... it's not UBI. Attacks at the universal component of BI must be stopped else it is nothing more than a variant of today's arbitrary and maligned welfare. >What is to stop the government from changing the laws The citizens. The hope is citizens can be more active in community efforts(like protesting government actions) when their continual employment(and employment usually hinders midday government protesting) is no longer a necessity for continued life.

ahoy 10y ago

The same thing that, presumably, stops government from doing those things now - voters. That's not to say that system of checks works. Places like Florida have enacted mandatory drug testing for welfare recipients, so there's obviously some political will to punish and regulate the poor.

elementalest 10y ago
It not the kind of thing that would happen suddenly, but gradually. A little change here, a little change there and after 10 years, its changed a lot. All it would take is the right political climate and circumstances, combined with ad campaigns and lots of lobbying. Many arguments would be put forth to convince people a minor change is a good thing, that due to the current circumstances, its necessary. Many people would likely agree, despite the risk it opens up the potential for the system to be abused with another minor change in the future. And its voted through by popular demand. A few years later, the political climate changes and the government isn't perhaps as trustworthy/predictable as it might have once been. Now of course it could go the other way. However, power creep rarely goes backwards.
oxide 10y ago
>Florida have enacted mandatory drug testing for welfare recipients which is, ironically, the kind of Big Government bullshit the right-wing in this country claims to want less of. it's hypocritical.

ahoy 10y ago

undersuit 10y ago

Not that it's a real deterrent... but if you have a requirement for UBI... it's not UBI. Attacks at the universal component of BI must be stopped else it is nothing more than a variant of today's arbitrary and maligned welfare. >What is to stop the government from changing the laws The citizens. The hope is citizens can be more active in community efforts(like protesting government actions) when their continual employment(and employment usually hinders midday government protesting) is no longer a necessity for continued life.