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> Every sushi restaurant from which samples were collected—100%—served fake fish I'm confused, what were they serving instead? Bison? Crab? Chicken? Tofu? Shar

> Every sushi restaurant from which samples were collected—100%—served fake fish I'm confused, what were they serving instead? Bison? Crab? Chicken? Tofu? Sharks? How can you fake fish? If I'm being honest, this sounds like an exaggeration to me. Maybe rephrase if that's not what you meant? (Edit: See my comment below [1] referring to Wikipedia -- it appears it's not even clear these are being mislabeled in the first place. Some people just don't think there is a huge distinction between the species; others do. That's another reason why this seems like a gross exaggeration of what is going on.) [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12466029 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12466029

mcpherrinm 10y ago
It's mislabelled fish. You can find the report here http://oceana.org/reports/widespread-seafood-fraud-found-new-york-city http://oceana.org/reports/widespread-seafood-fraud-found-new... There's a chart on page 5 for the substitutions. For example, replacing white tuna with escolar.
- wfunction 10y ago
  It should be called "mislabeled fish" then. "Fake fish" sounds like they're selling you chicken or something, which is way more terrifying for someone trying to eat fish -- not everyone cares exactly what the species is so long as it's fish, but they'd freak out it wasn't even some kind of fish. Take note of [1]: > Escolar is considered by the FDA and most fish experts to be Tuna [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escolar#Mislabeling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escolar#Mislabeling
  - Spooky23 10y ago
    If you couldn't tell the difference between chicken and any fish, you probably should avoid it. You'll notice the difference between escolar/"white tuna" and albacore tuna that we normally eat is that it's a lot cheaper, is oily and it gives you explosive orange diahharea.
  - chris_7 10y ago
    To me, the idea of eating something potentially mercury-toxic like tuna or swordfish when expecting something like salmon is pretty terrifying. I stay far away from those things. That seems unlikely to happen, though. If it's just arctic char marked as salmon, meh.
    - wfunction 10y ago
      > To me, the idea of eating something potentially mercury-toxic like tuna or swordfish when expecting something like salmon is pretty terrifying. Yes, that's why I very clearly said > not everyone cares exactly what the species is And was anyone substituting salmon with tuna in the first place? It's not like every wild substitution is being made. Like I said, the FDA is fine with some of them. Your viewpoint is just fine (and I'm with you honestly) but my point is that a lot of other people have others.
    - zumu 10y ago
      Escolar, which is often served in lieu of true tuna, is potentially harmful. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keriorrhea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keriorrhea
  - undersuit 10y ago
    >not everyone cares exactly what the species is so long as it's fish, but they'd freak out it wasn't even some kind of fish. I would say that is about 100% wrong. I don't order "the fish" in any restaurant. I order what's on the menu, and if the menu says it's snapper, I expect snapper. If it's not snapper, change your menu. Wouldn't you object to my restaurant serving you Angus beef when you actually ordered the Wagyu?
    - jameshart 10y ago
      In New England restaurants you'll find 'scrod' on a lot of menus. It means something different in every restaurant.
    - wfunction 10y ago
      >> not everyone cares exactly what the species is > I would say that is about 100% wrong. I don't order "the fish" in any restaurant. You aren't everyone. And people generally try not to be sarcastic when ordering, either. Ordering "the fish" in a seafood restaurant would be obviously sarcastic. In another kind of restaurant, it isn't necessarily. Heck, take a look at "Filet-O-Fish" on McDonald's menu: https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/product/filet-o-fish.html https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/product/filet-o-fish.html > Dive into our wild-caught fish sandwich! Sourced from sustainable fisheries, topped with melty American cheese and creamy tartar sauce, and served on a soft, steamed bun. What kind of fish is it? You have no idea from just looking at the menu. But people order it anyway. Maybe you don't, but you are not everyone. And no, this isn't the only restaurant (or "food place", or whatever you want to call it) in the world that does this.
      - loader 10y ago
        If you click through to the ingredients section you'll see: FISH FILET PATTY: Ingredients: Pollock, Water, Vegetable Oil ...
        wfunction 10y ago
        Yes. Did I say it was impossible to figure out? I thought I was just saying not everyone tries to figure it out before ordering.
  - Mindcraft 10y ago
    If you are paying for an expensive fish and are served a cheap one, you are being ripped off. Someone may not care about what kind of fish they receive, but charge them more for that and I would say almost 99% would care.
  - zumu 10y ago
    'Tuna' might not be the best word to describe these fish species served as sushi. In the original Japanese the labeling is much more explicit, where they are called 'maguro' which is less broad a category than 'tuna'. So while escolar may be 'tuna', it's definitely not 'maguro'. In fact escolar has been illegal in Japan for for decades because it's considered harmful due to its diarrhea inducing wax ester content.
  - fsloth 10y ago
    Apparently escolar can cause diarrhea. I'd rather be very specific of the species in this case.
  - dave_sullivan 10y ago
    Agreed, I did a double take there too. "If not fish, what have I been eating?" But no, I'm still eating fish, and it tastes like all the other fish I get at the same price, unless I pay roughly triple, in which case I get noticeably tastier (apparently of a different species) fish. Of course, mislabeled food is not fantastic, but I've figured for a while, when I order kobe beef sliders, "Yes, bold faced lies on the menu, but if it tastes good, who cares?" Transparency and reporting can go a long way here; isn't the rest just "market price" of whatever they're calling it today?
  - awqrre 10y ago
    While escolar might be considered Tuna according to Wikipedia, here is a quote from the FDA's website: "FDA recommendation: Escolar should not be marketed in interstate commerce" [1] (because of the possible presense of gempylotoxin, a strong purgative oil (can cause severe diarrhea)) 1. http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceRegulation/HACCP/ucm078063.htm http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceRegulation/HACCP/ucm078063.h...
- ohyes 10y ago
  At McDonald's they specifically market it as "the fish" in a non specific way. In a fine dining establishment they do actually market it as a particular type of fish. And particular types of fish do typically have different attributes (Heavy metal content or fat and oil content, parasite risks). If I sold you an "i7 with 16gig of ram" but when you opened the computer up it was actually a pentium 4 with 2 gig, you'd be really pissed. If I had just marketed it as "computer" you wouldn't have a basis to be angry. Imagine if I came back to you and said "oh gee, I guess that happens, knowing what I'm selling you is tough, our records aren't so good." I would be completely fucking negligent, at best, and more likely I would be dishonest. Particularly when I'm selling an inferior product as a superior one. You'll notice no one ever asks for escolar and gets something that is actually much better. If it happens repeatedly and endemically, it is almost certainly fraud. They're currently making a lot of money bilking consumers with an inferior product to what they have advertised. I guess my point is that mislabeled is too generous to the character of the industry. Mislabeled implies someone made a "mistake." "Fake fish" maybe isn't exactly semantically correct, but it is closer to the nature of crime. (Maybe we can agree on "fraudulent fish", I think I like that better.)
dandandans 10y ago
When fish is sliced, cut, and prepared, it's difficult to tell exactly what fish you are being served. According to the book, here are common substitutes: * Escolar for white tuna * Asian catfish, ponga, tilapia, hake for grouper * Tile fish for grouper/halibut/red snapper * Tilapia for catfish * Langostino, which is shrimp or crab for lobster
- ghshephard 10y ago
  If it's difficult to tell exactly what fish you are being served, then it probably doesn't matter what fish you are being served.
  - cmdrfred 10y ago
    A warm glass of milk and a warm glass of milk with ejaculate in it, can you tell the difference? Does it matter?
    - ghshephard 10y ago
      We were talking fish. Now you are talking about noxious adulterants to milk.
  - chris_7 10y ago
    Getting an Asian-farmed tilapia instead of a US-farmed catfish would not be good.
    - ghshephard 10y ago
      Why is that?
  - nicobn 10y ago
    It certainly does matter. In terms of texture and taste, white tuna may very well be indistinguishable from escolar for a lot of people. It's still much less desirable than white tuna. Japan has banned escolar in 1977, deeming it toxic.

mcpherrinm 10y ago

It's mislabelled fish. You can find the report here http://oceana.org/reports/widespread-seafood-fraud-found-new-york-city http://oceana.org/reports/widespread-seafood-fraud-found-new... There's a chart on page 5 for the substitutions. For example, replacing white tuna with escolar.

wfunction 10y ago
It should be called "mislabeled fish" then. "Fake fish" sounds like they're selling you chicken or something, which is way more terrifying for someone trying to eat fish -- not everyone cares exactly what the species is so long as it's fish, but they'd freak out it wasn't even some kind of fish. Take note of [1]: > Escolar is considered by the FDA and most fish experts to be Tuna [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escolar#Mislabeling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escolar#Mislabeling
- Spooky23 10y ago
  If you couldn't tell the difference between chicken and any fish, you probably should avoid it. You'll notice the difference between escolar/"white tuna" and albacore tuna that we normally eat is that it's a lot cheaper, is oily and it gives you explosive orange diahharea.
- chris_7 10y ago
  To me, the idea of eating something potentially mercury-toxic like tuna or swordfish when expecting something like salmon is pretty terrifying. I stay far away from those things. That seems unlikely to happen, though. If it's just arctic char marked as salmon, meh.
  - wfunction 10y ago
    > To me, the idea of eating something potentially mercury-toxic like tuna or swordfish when expecting something like salmon is pretty terrifying. Yes, that's why I very clearly said > not everyone cares exactly what the species is And was anyone substituting salmon with tuna in the first place? It's not like every wild substitution is being made. Like I said, the FDA is fine with some of them. Your viewpoint is just fine (and I'm with you honestly) but my point is that a lot of other people have others.
  - zumu 10y ago
    Escolar, which is often served in lieu of true tuna, is potentially harmful. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keriorrhea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keriorrhea
- undersuit 10y ago
  >not everyone cares exactly what the species is so long as it's fish, but they'd freak out it wasn't even some kind of fish. I would say that is about 100% wrong. I don't order "the fish" in any restaurant. I order what's on the menu, and if the menu says it's snapper, I expect snapper. If it's not snapper, change your menu. Wouldn't you object to my restaurant serving you Angus beef when you actually ordered the Wagyu?
  - jameshart 10y ago
    In New England restaurants you'll find 'scrod' on a lot of menus. It means something different in every restaurant.
  - wfunction 10y ago
    >> not everyone cares exactly what the species is > I would say that is about 100% wrong. I don't order "the fish" in any restaurant. You aren't everyone. And people generally try not to be sarcastic when ordering, either. Ordering "the fish" in a seafood restaurant would be obviously sarcastic. In another kind of restaurant, it isn't necessarily. Heck, take a look at "Filet-O-Fish" on McDonald's menu: https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/product/filet-o-fish.html https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/product/filet-o-fish.html > Dive into our wild-caught fish sandwich! Sourced from sustainable fisheries, topped with melty American cheese and creamy tartar sauce, and served on a soft, steamed bun. What kind of fish is it? You have no idea from just looking at the menu. But people order it anyway. Maybe you don't, but you are not everyone. And no, this isn't the only restaurant (or "food place", or whatever you want to call it) in the world that does this.
    - loader 10y ago
      If you click through to the ingredients section you'll see: FISH FILET PATTY: Ingredients: Pollock, Water, Vegetable Oil ...
      - wfunction 10y ago
        Yes. Did I say it was impossible to figure out? I thought I was just saying not everyone tries to figure it out before ordering.
- Mindcraft 10y ago
  If you are paying for an expensive fish and are served a cheap one, you are being ripped off. Someone may not care about what kind of fish they receive, but charge them more for that and I would say almost 99% would care.
- zumu 10y ago
  'Tuna' might not be the best word to describe these fish species served as sushi. In the original Japanese the labeling is much more explicit, where they are called 'maguro' which is less broad a category than 'tuna'. So while escolar may be 'tuna', it's definitely not 'maguro'. In fact escolar has been illegal in Japan for for decades because it's considered harmful due to its diarrhea inducing wax ester content.
- fsloth 10y ago
  Apparently escolar can cause diarrhea. I'd rather be very specific of the species in this case.
- dave_sullivan 10y ago
  Agreed, I did a double take there too. "If not fish, what have I been eating?" But no, I'm still eating fish, and it tastes like all the other fish I get at the same price, unless I pay roughly triple, in which case I get noticeably tastier (apparently of a different species) fish. Of course, mislabeled food is not fantastic, but I've figured for a while, when I order kobe beef sliders, "Yes, bold faced lies on the menu, but if it tastes good, who cares?" Transparency and reporting can go a long way here; isn't the rest just "market price" of whatever they're calling it today?
- awqrre 10y ago
  While escolar might be considered Tuna according to Wikipedia, here is a quote from the FDA's website: "FDA recommendation: Escolar should not be marketed in interstate commerce" [1] (because of the possible presense of gempylotoxin, a strong purgative oil (can cause severe diarrhea)) 1. http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceRegulation/HACCP/ucm078063.htm http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceRegulation/HACCP/ucm078063.h...
ohyes 10y ago
At McDonald's they specifically market it as "the fish" in a non specific way. In a fine dining establishment they do actually market it as a particular type of fish. And particular types of fish do typically have different attributes (Heavy metal content or fat and oil content, parasite risks). If I sold you an "i7 with 16gig of ram" but when you opened the computer up it was actually a pentium 4 with 2 gig, you'd be really pissed. If I had just marketed it as "computer" you wouldn't have a basis to be angry. Imagine if I came back to you and said "oh gee, I guess that happens, knowing what I'm selling you is tough, our records aren't so good." I would be completely fucking negligent, at best, and more likely I would be dishonest. Particularly when I'm selling an inferior product as a superior one. You'll notice no one ever asks for escolar and gets something that is actually much better. If it happens repeatedly and endemically, it is almost certainly fraud. They're currently making a lot of money bilking consumers with an inferior product to what they have advertised. I guess my point is that mislabeled is too generous to the character of the industry. Mislabeled implies someone made a "mistake." "Fake fish" maybe isn't exactly semantically correct, but it is closer to the nature of crime. (Maybe we can agree on "fraudulent fish", I think I like that better.)

dandandans 10y ago

When fish is sliced, cut, and prepared, it's difficult to tell exactly what fish you are being served. According to the book, here are common substitutes: * Escolar for white tuna * Asian catfish, ponga, tilapia, hake for grouper * Tile fish for grouper/halibut/red snapper * Tilapia for catfish * Langostino, which is shrimp or crab for lobster

ghshephard 10y ago
If it's difficult to tell exactly what fish you are being served, then it probably doesn't matter what fish you are being served.
- cmdrfred 10y ago
  A warm glass of milk and a warm glass of milk with ejaculate in it, can you tell the difference? Does it matter?
  - ghshephard 10y ago
    We were talking fish. Now you are talking about noxious adulterants to milk.
- chris_7 10y ago
  Getting an Asian-farmed tilapia instead of a US-farmed catfish would not be good.
  - ghshephard 10y ago
    Why is that?
- nicobn 10y ago
  It certainly does matter. In terms of texture and taste, white tuna may very well be indistinguishable from escolar for a lot of people. It's still much less desirable than white tuna. Japan has banned escolar in 1977, deeming it toxic.