7 ms·

Elementary OS Loki 0.4 Stable Release

222 points by iamcreasy 10y ago

andrewclunn 10y ago
Didn't know that they had a development podcast. Ooo that intro is classy, much like Elementary.
maxpert 10y ago
As much as I love the looks and the design theory of Elementary OS I hate the task switcher! In 0.3 my Alt+Shift+Tab didn't used to work, and well if I have 10 windows open and I missed the window while speed switching, good luck. I wish someone can implement a better switcher!
iamcreasy 10y ago
"Privacy & Security : We always strive to provide the utmost level of privacy and security to users of elementary OS, and Loki is no different. We’ve made improvements to Privacy Mode, which is like “Incognito” for the entire OS. For example, now when you’re using Privacy Mode, the Videos and Music apps won’t remember what you last played the next time you open them." Ah, this looks interesting.
banterfoil 10y ago
The last time I tried Elementary, I had significant problems getting Geary to play nicely with Gmail. Gmail didn't recognize Geary as being a "verified" mail client. I ended up using Thunderbird, but that seemed to defeat the purpose of having Elementary at all (at least for me). Does anyone know if this problem has been resolved? The Loki notes didn't seem to mention this.
- exmuslim 10y ago
  I've been using it on Freya and it works very well with my Gmail account.
tbrock 10y ago
The team behind Elementary is great. The ecosystem badly needs the polish that these developers are meticulous about applying to their particular flavor of linux. It's not sufficient to just slap things together and hope they are somehow cohesive to compete in the desktop space today. These people get it.
- pavanky 10y ago
  Oh please, just because you don't like something does not mean people in the Linux space before elementary were just slapping stuff together. Sure, there are a lot of distributions and desktop environments that focus on getting stuff done and let the user customize the look to their needs, but that is hardly the only choice. For anyone wanting to try out a cohesive setup try one of the following: - GNOME on Fedora (or Korora if you want binary repos). - Unity on Ubuntu - KDE on OpenSUSE
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - tbrock 10y ago
    Sorry. I've used Gnome, Unity, and KDE extensively. There is an incredible amount of work that goes into them sure but they are definitely not polished. I'm the definition of UnixPorn junkie and customize my linux box to the hilt but even I have to admit when there is a benefit of standardization and the work the elementary people are doing.
    - pavanky 10y ago
      I did not say gnome and KDE. I specifically mentioned gnome on Fedora and KDE on opensuse.
    - jahitr 10y ago
      I used elemeentary os at work for a while. Looked great at the first view. Months after using it became a living hell to work with it. The delay between app switches is a shit. Swiched to GNOME/Debian. Never looked back.
exmuslim 10y ago
And they say Linux can't be pretty. If only this distribution had more support! The team hs already done wonders making it the most well-polished Linux distribution out there. Perfect for those transitioning from a Mac/Windows.
- TsomArp 10y ago
  I'm a Windows/Linux user. I feel like something like Linux Mint is very much polished. My complain is the lack of main apps: adobe suite and visual studio in my case.
  - exmuslim 10y ago
    I agree that Mint is very much polished but I actually started recommending Elementary over it just because of well it looks, it's quite subjective. Adobe suite and VS are also the sole reason I have a Windows dual boot set up. Hopefully in the future but I honestly doubt it.
    - hsitz 10y ago
      Looks are pretty silly and irrelevant for most power users. I run Ubuntu with the i3 tiling window manager, which doesn't even have a desktop. Having a desktop is another thing that's pretty much irrelevant, given the way i3 works. I would never sacrifice the functionality I really like just to get something that's supposedly "prettier".
      - jamesgeck0 10y ago
        Usability is important. Basically every X.org distro ever supports your i3 power user setup. A much smaller number of distros are aimed exclusively at making Linux easier for average users.
      - kijin 10y ago
        There are different kinds of users. No need to call something silly and irrelevant just because it doesn't fit your preferences and priorities. For example, one of the first things I check when trying out a new Linux distro is whether I can tweak the font rendering exactly the way I like. If this takes more than a few minutes, or if Firefox and LibreOffice don't pick up my tweaks consistently, that distro is out. I don't care what other awesome features it has. If I'm going to be looking at it for 10 hours a day, it had better not hurt my eyes. I would never sacrifice visual comfort just to get something that's supposedly "more functional". But that's just me. Other people will have other priorities.
le-mark 10y ago
I'm fascinated by Vala, can anyone talk about how it's used in elementary and if it's a huge productivity benefit? I really think Vala and its ecosystem should get more attention!
- oblio 10y ago
  Vala seems interesting but at this point in time I wish that Vala, much like Gtk, wasn't ever necessary. Both were created due to licensing concerns (Vala -> C#/Mono, Gtk -> Qt).
  - infodroid 10y ago
    Vala wasn't created due to licensing concerns but rather because it could provide a high-level language for Gtk+ applications that was at the same time safer and as performant as C. This is because at that time writing Gtk+ applications in C required lots of boilerplate, was extremely error-prone, and had not attracted as many contributors to GNOME. There were C# (Mono) bindings available for Gtk+ long before Vala was invented and even a few GNOME applications using them, but C# Gtk+ apps didn't take off. I doubt anybody that chose Vala would have preferred to write their programs in C#. Because even if licensing concerns were not an issue, the performance of Mono was not up to par. Also, installing a Mono app pulled in huge dependencies, which gave it a reputation for bloat.
  - Longhanks 10y ago
    Comparing Vala to C# isn't fair. Vala is transpiled to C, then compiled to machine code, therefore has source compatibility with C and uses automatic reference counting, while C# is compiled to byte code, needs wrappers around C and uses garbage collection. They both are high level languages, but definitly with different goals.
    - carussell 10y ago
      Why should this matter to someone interacting with Vala as a programmer the language? These are implementation details of the runtime. Vala predates the new plans laid out over the last ~18 months, but at this point, shouldn't Vala be a research branch of C#? Seems like this kind of approach would serve as a multiplier for the benefits Vala is trying to bring to the world, from both sides.
stonogo 10y ago
Another year, another Geary release without even the slightest support for address books.
mattkevan 10y ago
A fantastic job, really well done. It's great to see a distro with such a strong focus on design.
Anthony-G 10y ago
They were quite quick at getting this release out. I had been using Luna in 2014 and remember waiting a long time for the release of Isis (which was renamed to Freya before it was released in 2015). I eventually gave up waiting and went back to Lubuntu (which was a better fit for my 10 year old laptop). I like what they’re doing a lot and think they carved out a unique space in the world of GNU/Linux distributions. There’s a lot to be said for emphasising usability and aesthetics and not overwhelming the user with too much software choice or OS customisations. I’m not the target market because I spend a lot of my time in the terminal but I’d be happy to recommend Elementary to friends and family who don’t want to have to think too much about their computing environment.
owaislone 10y ago
I would think of using this if they switch to rolling release system or had Ubuntu like release cadence
- Sanddancer 10y ago
  Rolling releases and ubuntu-like cadences are why Linux environments are pretty much always ugly and have usability problems. It takes time to work on UX, which is something a lot of projects don't do.
  - pavanky 10y ago
    Good luck supporting newer hardware without such a cadence.
    - macco 10y ago
      Ubuntu and subsequently eOS does that via hardware enablement stacks, ie new kernel
  - minitech 10y ago
    Rolling releases and usability seem completely unrelated. It takes time to work on UX, sure; how is a rolling release interfering with that? It should do the opposite, really, by not applying the same pressure by nature to have the design finalized and implemented in time for release X.Y. Also, usability aside, I definitely wouldn't call either GNOME or Unity ugly, and they’re the popular ones.
  - macco 10y ago
    Ever used Antergos or Manjaro?
moondev 10y ago
Still no hidpi support?
- moondev 10y ago
  If anyone else needs this, found out you can enable it with the following: gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.interface scaling-factor 2
- iamcreasy 10y ago
  The core devs said Loki now supports HIDPI out of the box. Here is the youtube video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN8dVJ6_AL8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN8dVJ6_AL8
- izacus 10y ago
  Pretty much all bundled software works well with 2x scaling factor and looks great on rMBP.
bkhurjawal 10y ago
Until i hadn't purchased macbook, I always had my eyes gazed upon elementary OS. Everyone wants to have OSX look and feel but this linux distribution actually did it.
hitlin37 10y ago
Lubuntu and xubuntu are also quite good if you have old laptop. They eat ram in mb not gb.
rcarmo 10y ago
This is great. I've been waiting for them to catch up with Ubuntu LTS so I can move over. I already know Geary is quirky and still doesn't handle contacts and that the calendar apparently doesn't sync with anything (at least one of the betas didn't), but the nice, clutter-free desktop (mostly) makes up for it.
macco 10y ago
I wish they could create a bigger team. Then eOS would be a real contender. Their ideas and their execution are great, but their output is far too low. I personally would prefer arch as the basis - like Antergos and Manjaro. But this is a different thing.
- oceanofsolaris 10y ago
  I think using arch as its basis would clash too much with their target audience. I have not tried Antergos or Manjaro, but at least arch itself is often rather high-maintenance due to its rolling release nature. I think someone looking for an easy-to-use desktop would not be amused if her/his touchpad stops working one day or the system would not boot properly. Using a LTS Ubuntu or Debian as a basis allows you to not worry so much about things breaking and focus your energy on the added value you provide.
  - macco 10y ago
    Yes, I know. That's why it is my personal preference. With Manjaro it's working quite well, because their repos are 2 weeks behind of arch. With Antergos it's a problem sometimes. My system was never unusable, but especially Gnome updates introduced some errors. That said, using an arch based distro as dev machine, is insanely great. Installing the newest version of Android studio is like: yaourt android-studio
    - TheHippo 10y ago
      Does Android Studio have an built in upgrade option?
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
unsiebui 10y ago
I'm flaking out now. When shall we cross meet? http://u.to/bOg3Dw http://u.to/bOg3Dw
inciper 10y ago
Hey, buzzard, are you cloth-eared? Come on, look at hotchas here http://u.to/aOg3Dw http://u.to/aOg3Dw
nojvek 10y ago
Is Loki based on Ubuntu at all? I've just been very used to Ubuntu. The skin looks very pretty. I'm gonna try this out in a VM.
- aorth 10y ago
  Yes, it is literally just Ubuntu underneath, but they don't mention that on the release notes—it bothers me that they're not more open about that. Every two years, they take the latest long-term support (LTS) Ubuntu release and then install quite a number of their own applications to replace stock GNOME and Unity ones. To their credit, they have a good eye for UI/UX and actually write applications—not just themes—that are simple and look nice. They care about fonts, colors, etc, and even have some decent style and code guidelines for developers: https://elementary.io/developer https://elementary.io/developer
  - rvschuilenburg 10y ago
    They recently launched this page referencing all open source stuff that's included in Elementary OS: https://elementary.io/open-source https://elementary.io/open-source

222 points by iamcreasy 10y ago

Didn't know that they had a development podcast. Ooo that intro is classy, much like Elementary.

As much as I love the looks and the design theory of Elementary OS I hate the task switcher! In 0.3 my Alt+Shift+Tab didn't used to work, and well if I have 10 windows open and I missed the window while speed switching, good luck. I wish someone can implement a better switcher!

iamcreasy 10y ago

"Privacy & Security : We always strive to provide the utmost level of privacy and security to users of elementary OS, and Loki is no different. We’ve made improvements to Privacy Mode, which is like “Incognito” for the entire OS. For example, now when you’re using Privacy Mode, the Videos and Music apps won’t remember what you last played the next time you open them." Ah, this looks interesting.

banterfoil 10y ago

The last time I tried Elementary, I had significant problems getting Geary to play nicely with Gmail. Gmail didn't recognize Geary as being a "verified" mail client. I ended up using Thunderbird, but that seemed to defeat the purpose of having Elementary at all (at least for me). Does anyone know if this problem has been resolved? The Loki notes didn't seem to mention this.

exmuslim 10y ago
I've been using it on Freya and it works very well with my Gmail account.

tbrock 10y ago

The team behind Elementary is great. The ecosystem badly needs the polish that these developers are meticulous about applying to their particular flavor of linux. It's not sufficient to just slap things together and hope they are somehow cohesive to compete in the desktop space today. These people get it.

pavanky 10y ago
Oh please, just because you don't like something does not mean people in the Linux space before elementary were just slapping stuff together. Sure, there are a lot of distributions and desktop environments that focus on getting stuff done and let the user customize the look to their needs, but that is hardly the only choice. For anyone wanting to try out a cohesive setup try one of the following: - GNOME on Fedora (or Korora if you want binary repos). - Unity on Ubuntu - KDE on OpenSUSE
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- tbrock 10y ago
  Sorry. I've used Gnome, Unity, and KDE extensively. There is an incredible amount of work that goes into them sure but they are definitely not polished. I'm the definition of UnixPorn junkie and customize my linux box to the hilt but even I have to admit when there is a benefit of standardization and the work the elementary people are doing.
  - pavanky 10y ago
    I did not say gnome and KDE. I specifically mentioned gnome on Fedora and KDE on opensuse.
  - jahitr 10y ago
    I used elemeentary os at work for a while. Looked great at the first view. Months after using it became a living hell to work with it. The delay between app switches is a shit. Swiched to GNOME/Debian. Never looked back.

exmuslim 10y ago

And they say Linux can't be pretty. If only this distribution had more support! The team hs already done wonders making it the most well-polished Linux distribution out there. Perfect for those transitioning from a Mac/Windows.

TsomArp 10y ago
I'm a Windows/Linux user. I feel like something like Linux Mint is very much polished. My complain is the lack of main apps: adobe suite and visual studio in my case.
- exmuslim 10y ago
  I agree that Mint is very much polished but I actually started recommending Elementary over it just because of well it looks, it's quite subjective. Adobe suite and VS are also the sole reason I have a Windows dual boot set up. Hopefully in the future but I honestly doubt it.
  - hsitz 10y ago
    Looks are pretty silly and irrelevant for most power users. I run Ubuntu with the i3 tiling window manager, which doesn't even have a desktop. Having a desktop is another thing that's pretty much irrelevant, given the way i3 works. I would never sacrifice the functionality I really like just to get something that's supposedly "prettier".
    - jamesgeck0 10y ago
      Usability is important. Basically every X.org distro ever supports your i3 power user setup. A much smaller number of distros are aimed exclusively at making Linux easier for average users.
    - kijin 10y ago
      There are different kinds of users. No need to call something silly and irrelevant just because it doesn't fit your preferences and priorities. For example, one of the first things I check when trying out a new Linux distro is whether I can tweak the font rendering exactly the way I like. If this takes more than a few minutes, or if Firefox and LibreOffice don't pick up my tweaks consistently, that distro is out. I don't care what other awesome features it has. If I'm going to be looking at it for 10 hours a day, it had better not hurt my eyes. I would never sacrifice visual comfort just to get something that's supposedly "more functional". But that's just me. Other people will have other priorities.

le-mark 10y ago

I'm fascinated by Vala, can anyone talk about how it's used in elementary and if it's a huge productivity benefit? I really think Vala and its ecosystem should get more attention!

oblio 10y ago
Vala seems interesting but at this point in time I wish that Vala, much like Gtk, wasn't ever necessary. Both were created due to licensing concerns (Vala -> C#/Mono, Gtk -> Qt).
- infodroid 10y ago
  Vala wasn't created due to licensing concerns but rather because it could provide a high-level language for Gtk+ applications that was at the same time safer and as performant as C. This is because at that time writing Gtk+ applications in C required lots of boilerplate, was extremely error-prone, and had not attracted as many contributors to GNOME. There were C# (Mono) bindings available for Gtk+ long before Vala was invented and even a few GNOME applications using them, but C# Gtk+ apps didn't take off. I doubt anybody that chose Vala would have preferred to write their programs in C#. Because even if licensing concerns were not an issue, the performance of Mono was not up to par. Also, installing a Mono app pulled in huge dependencies, which gave it a reputation for bloat.
- Longhanks 10y ago
  Comparing Vala to C# isn't fair. Vala is transpiled to C, then compiled to machine code, therefore has source compatibility with C and uses automatic reference counting, while C# is compiled to byte code, needs wrappers around C and uses garbage collection. They both are high level languages, but definitly with different goals.
  - carussell 10y ago
    Why should this matter to someone interacting with Vala as a programmer the language? These are implementation details of the runtime. Vala predates the new plans laid out over the last ~18 months, but at this point, shouldn't Vala be a research branch of C#? Seems like this kind of approach would serve as a multiplier for the benefits Vala is trying to bring to the world, from both sides.

stonogo 10y ago

Another year, another Geary release without even the slightest support for address books.

mattkevan 10y ago

A fantastic job, really well done. It's great to see a distro with such a strong focus on design.

Anthony-G 10y ago

They were quite quick at getting this release out. I had been using Luna in 2014 and remember waiting a long time for the release of Isis (which was renamed to Freya before it was released in 2015). I eventually gave up waiting and went back to Lubuntu (which was a better fit for my 10 year old laptop). I like what they’re doing a lot and think they carved out a unique space in the world of GNU/Linux distributions. There’s a lot to be said for emphasising usability and aesthetics and not overwhelming the user with too much software choice or OS customisations. I’m not the target market because I spend a lot of my time in the terminal but I’d be happy to recommend Elementary to friends and family who don’t want to have to think too much about their computing environment.

owaislone 10y ago

I would think of using this if they switch to rolling release system or had Ubuntu like release cadence

Sanddancer 10y ago
Rolling releases and ubuntu-like cadences are why Linux environments are pretty much always ugly and have usability problems. It takes time to work on UX, which is something a lot of projects don't do.
- pavanky 10y ago
  Good luck supporting newer hardware without such a cadence.
  - macco 10y ago
    Ubuntu and subsequently eOS does that via hardware enablement stacks, ie new kernel
- minitech 10y ago
  Rolling releases and usability seem completely unrelated. It takes time to work on UX, sure; how is a rolling release interfering with that? It should do the opposite, really, by not applying the same pressure by nature to have the design finalized and implemented in time for release X.Y. Also, usability aside, I definitely wouldn't call either GNOME or Unity ugly, and they’re the popular ones.
- macco 10y ago
  Ever used Antergos or Manjaro?

moondev 10y ago

Still no hidpi support?

moondev 10y ago
If anyone else needs this, found out you can enable it with the following: gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.interface scaling-factor 2
iamcreasy 10y ago
The core devs said Loki now supports HIDPI out of the box. Here is the youtube video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN8dVJ6_AL8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN8dVJ6_AL8
izacus 10y ago
Pretty much all bundled software works well with 2x scaling factor and looks great on rMBP.

bkhurjawal 10y ago

Until i hadn't purchased macbook, I always had my eyes gazed upon elementary OS. Everyone wants to have OSX look and feel but this linux distribution actually did it.

hitlin37 10y ago

Lubuntu and xubuntu are also quite good if you have old laptop. They eat ram in mb not gb.

rcarmo 10y ago

This is great. I've been waiting for them to catch up with Ubuntu LTS so I can move over. I already know Geary is quirky and still doesn't handle contacts and that the calendar apparently doesn't sync with anything (at least one of the betas didn't), but the nice, clutter-free desktop (mostly) makes up for it.

macco 10y ago

I wish they could create a bigger team. Then eOS would be a real contender. Their ideas and their execution are great, but their output is far too low. I personally would prefer arch as the basis - like Antergos and Manjaro. But this is a different thing.

oceanofsolaris 10y ago
I think using arch as its basis would clash too much with their target audience. I have not tried Antergos or Manjaro, but at least arch itself is often rather high-maintenance due to its rolling release nature. I think someone looking for an easy-to-use desktop would not be amused if her/his touchpad stops working one day or the system would not boot properly. Using a LTS Ubuntu or Debian as a basis allows you to not worry so much about things breaking and focus your energy on the added value you provide.
- macco 10y ago
  Yes, I know. That's why it is my personal preference. With Manjaro it's working quite well, because their repos are 2 weeks behind of arch. With Antergos it's a problem sometimes. My system was never unusable, but especially Gnome updates introduced some errors. That said, using an arch based distro as dev machine, is insanely great. Installing the newest version of Android studio is like: yaourt android-studio
  - TheHippo 10y ago
    Does Android Studio have an built in upgrade option?

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

unsiebui 10y ago

I'm flaking out now. When shall we cross meet? http://u.to/bOg3Dw http://u.to/bOg3Dw

inciper 10y ago

Hey, buzzard, are you cloth-eared? Come on, look at hotchas here http://u.to/aOg3Dw http://u.to/aOg3Dw

nojvek 10y ago

Is Loki based on Ubuntu at all? I've just been very used to Ubuntu. The skin looks very pretty. I'm gonna try this out in a VM.

aorth 10y ago
Yes, it is literally just Ubuntu underneath, but they don't mention that on the release notes—it bothers me that they're not more open about that. Every two years, they take the latest long-term support (LTS) Ubuntu release and then install quite a number of their own applications to replace stock GNOME and Unity ones. To their credit, they have a good eye for UI/UX and actually write applications—not just themes—that are simple and look nice. They care about fonts, colors, etc, and even have some decent style and code guidelines for developers: https://elementary.io/developer https://elementary.io/developer
- rvschuilenburg 10y ago
  They recently launched this page referencing all open source stuff that's included in Elementary OS: https://elementary.io/open-source https://elementary.io/open-source