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Given your definitions is there any concern about introverts that don't have social anxiety? Do introverts just work better alone or do they actually perform ba

Given your definitions is there any concern about introverts that don't have social anxiety? Do introverts just work better alone or do they actually perform badly in open space plans or in paired programming?

Jtsummers 10y ago
Sure. But you have to go on a case-by-case basis. Again, me as an introvert, I do fine in team projects, or alone. I do fine in open floor plans, or with my own office. For teams, I tend to interact with smaller-than-the-whole units, so one or two people, a tester, a couple of co-developers, not the whole. That does still grate on me, but less from my introversion than the fact that not much gets accomplished when you throw 15 people in a room for most of our meetings. But other people have different skillsets, or more extreme introversion, or lower tolerances. But that's just me. I've got a friend working down the street. He's so much happier being in an office with 3 other people who never talk to each other. He'd hate the environment I'm in and the team sizes I work with. To the best of my knowledge, and by his behavior (compared to my experience with my own issues and working with/helping others), he doesn't seem to have any social anxiety (or nothing beyond some fairly common level that many engineers seem to have). My father is even more introverted than him, but he successfully ran organizations (military) of thousands of people. He got his alone time, really small group time was more to his liking, on the weekends and after-hours. He tolerated it for 8-12 hours a day, then came home and set work aside. Again, introversion isn't a disorder. It becomes a disorder, and likely some sort of anxiety disorder, when it impacts your ability to do what you want to do. Ultimately, there's also only so much a company can do though. Introversion isn't a disorder (anxiety is), so there's no obligation to accommodate people, legally. Which is another reason to address things by what they actually are. When I was last depressed, addressing it as depression meant that I worked with my supervisor to reduce my workload, reduce my stress (my depression is a consequence of anxiety, combination of personal and professional stressors triggered it last time), while I got through it. Then we ramped it back up once I got passed a couple hurdles. Another thing to note, things that annoy productive introverts also annoy productive extroverts. A loud office filled with nonsense like five people playing music on their speakers, and conversations about WoW. That annoys almost everyone that just wants to get shit done.
- brazzledazzle 10y ago
  Thanks for taking the time to explain. It sounds like people are really pushing for changes to accommodate social anxiety. I do wonder if some people are avoiding calling it that since mental disorders have a stigma against them.
  - Jtsummers 10y ago
    I think most people don't realize how subtle both depression and anxiety can be (probably other disorders, but these are the ones I have direct experience with and talk to others about). Introversion/extroversion as a spectrum is a real thing. But it's dangerous to use them as reasons for behaviors that are also strongly correlated with other conditions. You're potentially masking the real problems and letting them fester. I've been in shitty work environments. Being by myself in the evenings and weekends gave me the energy to go back into it and start again. Using the "I'm an introvert" reasoning would have been valid: it was an open plan, I was right on top of other people, little-to-no privacy. But that wasn't the cause, it was the stress of the place (contractor, no benefits, could be fired at any time), that was dragging me down each day. It took me almost a year to realize that, because I did use the introvert reasoning. Addressing it, by leaving, got me to another physically equivalent environment, where I wasn't stressed by the environment (found other stressors, but by then I had mostly learned to recognize anxiety/depression and my reaction to them as a separate thing).

Jtsummers 10y ago

Sure. But you have to go on a case-by-case basis. Again, me as an introvert, I do fine in team projects, or alone. I do fine in open floor plans, or with my own office. For teams, I tend to interact with smaller-than-the-whole units, so one or two people, a tester, a couple of co-developers, not the whole. That does still grate on me, but less from my introversion than the fact that not much gets accomplished when you throw 15 people in a room for most of our meetings. But other people have different skillsets, or more extreme introversion, or lower tolerances. But that's just me. I've got a friend working down the street. He's so much happier being in an office with 3 other people who never talk to each other. He'd hate the environment I'm in and the team sizes I work with. To the best of my knowledge, and by his behavior (compared to my experience with my own issues and working with/helping others), he doesn't seem to have any social anxiety (or nothing beyond some fairly common level that many engineers seem to have). My father is even more introverted than him, but he successfully ran organizations (military) of thousands of people. He got his alone time, really small group time was more to his liking, on the weekends and after-hours. He tolerated it for 8-12 hours a day, then came home and set work aside. Again, introversion isn't a disorder. It becomes a disorder, and likely some sort of anxiety disorder, when it impacts your ability to do what you want to do. Ultimately, there's also only so much a company can do though. Introversion isn't a disorder (anxiety is), so there's no obligation to accommodate people, legally. Which is another reason to address things by what they actually are. When I was last depressed, addressing it as depression meant that I worked with my supervisor to reduce my workload, reduce my stress (my depression is a consequence of anxiety, combination of personal and professional stressors triggered it last time), while I got through it. Then we ramped it back up once I got passed a couple hurdles. Another thing to note, things that annoy productive introverts also annoy productive extroverts. A loud office filled with nonsense like five people playing music on their speakers, and conversations about WoW. That annoys almost everyone that just wants to get shit done.

brazzledazzle 10y ago
Thanks for taking the time to explain. It sounds like people are really pushing for changes to accommodate social anxiety. I do wonder if some people are avoiding calling it that since mental disorders have a stigma against them.
- Jtsummers 10y ago
  I think most people don't realize how subtle both depression and anxiety can be (probably other disorders, but these are the ones I have direct experience with and talk to others about). Introversion/extroversion as a spectrum is a real thing. But it's dangerous to use them as reasons for behaviors that are also strongly correlated with other conditions. You're potentially masking the real problems and letting them fester. I've been in shitty work environments. Being by myself in the evenings and weekends gave me the energy to go back into it and start again. Using the "I'm an introvert" reasoning would have been valid: it was an open plan, I was right on top of other people, little-to-no privacy. But that wasn't the cause, it was the stress of the place (contractor, no benefits, could be fired at any time), that was dragging me down each day. It took me almost a year to realize that, because I did use the introvert reasoning. Addressing it, by leaving, got me to another physically equivalent environment, where I wasn't stressed by the environment (found other stressors, but by then I had mostly learned to recognize anxiety/depression and my reaction to them as a separate thing).