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I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say here, but if you don't think GGP's almost explicit inference that if those men had been in the "racist" (read:

I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say here, but if you don't think GGP's almost explicit inference that if those men had been in the "racist" (read: "South Eastern") parts of the US we wouldn't have had their contributions to society isn't a form of dog whistle than we're not going to have a constructive conversation here. P.S. I'd invite you to visit any of the southern cities I mentioned above to discuss past inequities with any of the hundreds of political organizations that make it their duty to right those past wrongs. Regardless of what you want to believe, we're not all hillbillies spitting into confederate spitoons whenever someone of color walks by, and we most assuredly do not deny the atrocities that occurred in the name of our geographical region. Something tells me you won't take me up on that offer though.

kbenson 10y ago
> I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say here, but if you don't think GGP's almost explicit inference that if those men had been in the "racist" (read: "South Eastern") parts of the US we wouldn't have had their contributions to society isn't a form of dog whistle than we're not going to have a constructive conversation here. I don't think that was what was being said at all, if I did then I would agree with you. I think "tech luminaries" were used as examples of people that would be known here, and that have fairly liberal views on race that could have been different with a different environment when young. That the South has in the recent past (relatively, as in people are alive today that experienced it) had policies that contributed to racism and occurrences of extreme racism is not in question. That makes it fair game to illustrate a point. That point was to explain to some degree why Americans have "thin skin" regarding some race issues. As I understand it, the point was to point out that people have seen fairly distinct differences in how different parts of the country have treated people based on race, within their lifetime. None of that says anything about the South as it is now. It does say some factual things about the South as it was. By conflating this with some negative assessment of the South as it currently is, I think you're accidentally presenting a straw man argument. To put this another way, I will make a definitive statement. The South had racist policies. Unless you find reason to argue against that statement, I'm not sure what your problem is with the original comment, since I think for the purpose of what you're upset about, they reduce to the same thing.
- pdeuchler 10y ago
  > I don't think that was what was being said at all, if I did then I would agree with you. I think "tech luminaries" were used as examples of people that would be known here, and that have fairly liberal views on race that could have been different with a different environment when young. Bill Gates is actively trying to segregate schools by forcing public school systems to adopt magnet and charter schools. Statistically, in the overwhelming majority of cases, the creation of magnet and charter schools results in increased segregation. Sacrilege, I know. To put this another way, I will make a definitive statement. The entire US is filled with racist policies regardless of region, both in the past and present. Unless you find reason to argue with this statement I'm not sure what your problem is with my refusal to accept the pigeon-holing of the South as the US' paragon of racism.
  - kbenson 10y ago
    > Bill Gates is actively trying to segregate schools by forcing public school systems to adopt magnet and charter schools. Statistically, in the overwhelming majority of cases, the creation of magnet and charter schools results in increased segregation. Sacrilege, I know. I think that topic is complex enough that a simple correlation based on what maybe proposed is not easily provably, much less a causation. Unless you are making an argument that he's both aware of race problems this might cause and doesn't care (as in, has no plans to mitigate or reverse it in any way), I'm not sure how this speaks towards his feeling on race equality, and therefore I'm not sure how it's relevant. > Unless you find reason to argue with this statement I'm not sure what your problem is with my refusal to accept the pigeon-holing of the South as the US' paragon of racism. Since you've graciously given me an opening to express what I think is wrong with that statement, I'll do so, rather than ignore it in favor of a non-sequitur. Everywhere in the US is filled with racist policies, regardless of region. Some places more so than others, either currently or in the past. That makes them useful as examples. Just as Everywhere in the world is filled with racist policies, regardless of country. Some places more so than others. That doesn't mean we can't draw meaningful comparisons based on how they compare relatively. Unless you are ready to address why it's unfair to reference past southern racism, which I've gone to pains to point out I think was the point and you haven't refuted in any way, I don't see any reason to continue. I get it, your're upset at how the South gets singled out. That doesn't really make it unfair. It's possible and understandable for both to be true.

kbenson 10y ago

> I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say here, but if you don't think GGP's almost explicit inference that if those men had been in the "racist" (read: "South Eastern") parts of the US we wouldn't have had their contributions to society isn't a form of dog whistle than we're not going to have a constructive conversation here. I don't think that was what was being said at all, if I did then I would agree with you. I think "tech luminaries" were used as examples of people that would be known here, and that have fairly liberal views on race that could have been different with a different environment when young. That the South has in the recent past (relatively, as in people are alive today that experienced it) had policies that contributed to racism and occurrences of extreme racism is not in question. That makes it fair game to illustrate a point. That point was to explain to some degree why Americans have "thin skin" regarding some race issues. As I understand it, the point was to point out that people have seen fairly distinct differences in how different parts of the country have treated people based on race, within their lifetime. None of that says anything about the South as it is now. It does say some factual things about the South as it was. By conflating this with some negative assessment of the South as it currently is, I think you're accidentally presenting a straw man argument. To put this another way, I will make a definitive statement. The South had racist policies. Unless you find reason to argue against that statement, I'm not sure what your problem is with the original comment, since I think for the purpose of what you're upset about, they reduce to the same thing.

pdeuchler 10y ago
> I don't think that was what was being said at all, if I did then I would agree with you. I think "tech luminaries" were used as examples of people that would be known here, and that have fairly liberal views on race that could have been different with a different environment when young. Bill Gates is actively trying to segregate schools by forcing public school systems to adopt magnet and charter schools. Statistically, in the overwhelming majority of cases, the creation of magnet and charter schools results in increased segregation. Sacrilege, I know. To put this another way, I will make a definitive statement. The entire US is filled with racist policies regardless of region, both in the past and present. Unless you find reason to argue with this statement I'm not sure what your problem is with my refusal to accept the pigeon-holing of the South as the US' paragon of racism.
- kbenson 10y ago
  > Bill Gates is actively trying to segregate schools by forcing public school systems to adopt magnet and charter schools. Statistically, in the overwhelming majority of cases, the creation of magnet and charter schools results in increased segregation. Sacrilege, I know. I think that topic is complex enough that a simple correlation based on what maybe proposed is not easily provably, much less a causation. Unless you are making an argument that he's both aware of race problems this might cause and doesn't care (as in, has no plans to mitigate or reverse it in any way), I'm not sure how this speaks towards his feeling on race equality, and therefore I'm not sure how it's relevant. > Unless you find reason to argue with this statement I'm not sure what your problem is with my refusal to accept the pigeon-holing of the South as the US' paragon of racism. Since you've graciously given me an opening to express what I think is wrong with that statement, I'll do so, rather than ignore it in favor of a non-sequitur. Everywhere in the US is filled with racist policies, regardless of region. Some places more so than others, either currently or in the past. That makes them useful as examples. Just as Everywhere in the world is filled with racist policies, regardless of country. Some places more so than others. That doesn't mean we can't draw meaningful comparisons based on how they compare relatively. Unless you are ready to address why it's unfair to reference past southern racism, which I've gone to pains to point out I think was the point and you haven't refuted in any way, I don't see any reason to continue. I get it, your're upset at how the South gets singled out. That doesn't really make it unfair. It's possible and understandable for both to be true.