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I don't disagree with your general point, which from what I understand is that the US has had, and still has, some nasty problems with racism. But I have to ta

I don't disagree with your general point, which from what I understand is that the US has had, and still has, some nasty problems with racism. But I have to take issue with this statement: >racism germinated and produced toxic effects in the US to a greater degree than it did in other countries. The two countries that you mentioned, Belgium and Japan, have absolutely horrific history of violent occupation/repression of other ethnic/racial groups, anchored in no small part by racist ideology. I'll throw in Germany as well, but I think just about any country/culture with much of a history will have some examples of the abysmal treatment of some minority group. I dispute your view, if I understand it, that the US has a worse history or track record with racism. I'd say by in large, human history has a pretty poor track record in this respect.

tptacek 10y ago
Both Belgium and Japan have horrific track records of racism, and Japan's remains part of its culture, but the US is unique in that its worst problems with racism have been contained within its own borders. Ordinary Belgian citizens weren't routinely confronted with the Congolese.
- gricardo99 10y ago
  I think I understand your point. Not to be argumentative, but the slave trade was a global enterprise. Beyond that, US support of European colonial rule, US support for apartheid South Africa, the war in Vietnam, there are many examples. These all had their racist overtones, if not outright racist justifications. I don't believe such a hegemonic culture/country has managed to keep its racist elements contained within its borders.
  - tptacek 10y ago
    I'm not disputing that racism is endemic to humanity and prevalent in all cultures. I'm saying that the US is unique in having racism challenges that impact all its citizens on a day-to-day basis, directly, in ways that it is actively struggling to mitigate and/or metabolize. I'm not making a moral argument, just a descriptive one. You keep responding as if to rebut an argument that the US is the world capital of slavery, or that the Europeans somehow have clean hands. I'm the wrong person to have that argument with.
deleted 10y ago
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rayiner 10y ago
> The two countries that you mentioned, Belgium and Japan, have absolutely horrific history of violent occupation/repression of other ethnic/racial groups, anchored in no small part by racist ideology. Now imagine that 12% of the population of Belgium is Congolese, or that 12% of Japan is Korean/Chinese. Picture what that would do to the cultural and political dynamics of those countries. The U.S. is relatively unusual in that its culture and political institutions have had to adapt to integrate a large minority population that, until recently, it viciously oppressed.
- tptacek 10y ago
  ... and then another huge population of another disfavored minority. I think the only country that comes close is the UK, but the UK's worst institutional racism excesses were offshored.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > The U.S. is relatively unusual in that its culture and political institutions have had to adapt to integrate a large minority population that, until recently, it viciously oppressed. The US is relatively unusual in that these oppressed populations remain visible minorities. Without that difference lots of countries have similar problems, but if you are mostly only able to distinguish the oppressed group from the favored group by things like accent and elements of culture that blend with integration, you don't really have the same durable problems.

tptacek 10y ago

Both Belgium and Japan have horrific track records of racism, and Japan's remains part of its culture, but the US is unique in that its worst problems with racism have been contained within its own borders. Ordinary Belgian citizens weren't routinely confronted with the Congolese.

gricardo99 10y ago
I think I understand your point. Not to be argumentative, but the slave trade was a global enterprise. Beyond that, US support of European colonial rule, US support for apartheid South Africa, the war in Vietnam, there are many examples. These all had their racist overtones, if not outright racist justifications. I don't believe such a hegemonic culture/country has managed to keep its racist elements contained within its borders.
- tptacek 10y ago
  I'm not disputing that racism is endemic to humanity and prevalent in all cultures. I'm saying that the US is unique in having racism challenges that impact all its citizens on a day-to-day basis, directly, in ways that it is actively struggling to mitigate and/or metabolize. I'm not making a moral argument, just a descriptive one. You keep responding as if to rebut an argument that the US is the world capital of slavery, or that the Europeans somehow have clean hands. I'm the wrong person to have that argument with.

deleted 10y ago

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rayiner 10y ago

> The two countries that you mentioned, Belgium and Japan, have absolutely horrific history of violent occupation/repression of other ethnic/racial groups, anchored in no small part by racist ideology. Now imagine that 12% of the population of Belgium is Congolese, or that 12% of Japan is Korean/Chinese. Picture what that would do to the cultural and political dynamics of those countries. The U.S. is relatively unusual in that its culture and political institutions have had to adapt to integrate a large minority population that, until recently, it viciously oppressed.

tptacek 10y ago
... and then another huge population of another disfavored minority. I think the only country that comes close is the UK, but the UK's worst institutional racism excesses were offshored.
dragonwriter 10y ago
> The U.S. is relatively unusual in that its culture and political institutions have had to adapt to integrate a large minority population that, until recently, it viciously oppressed. The US is relatively unusual in that these oppressed populations remain visible minorities. Without that difference lots of countries have similar problems, but if you are mostly only able to distinguish the oppressed group from the favored group by things like accent and elements of culture that blend with integration, you don't really have the same durable problems.