4 ms·

Given there's research showing harshness increases over time until lunch then dropping markedly, then increasing again over the afternoon this isn't terribly su

Given there's research showing harshness increases over time until lunch then dropping markedly, then increasing again over the afternoon this isn't terribly surprising. We're not likely to eliminate these factors any time soon.

hackuser 10y ago
> We're not likely to eliminate these factors any time soon. I disagree. Knowing about them can make a big difference, and training can teach people to avoid these errors.
- anexprogrammer 10y ago
  We can mitigate them to some extent with awareness and training. With research seeming to show subconscious biases remarkably difficult to remove, I sincerely doubt they can be eliminated. We haven't managed it in society and the workplace despite significant legislative effort.
  - hackuser 10y ago
    > I sincerely doubt they can be eliminated. We haven't managed it in society and the workplace despite significant legislative effort. Right. Who made the standard (for anything!) 100% success? But society and the workplace have greatly improved, through social effort and also the resulting legislative one. Just 60 years ago, women were only allowed to be teachers and nurses; not long before that, they needed their husband's permission to get a job and were locked out of higher education for the most part. Now most college graduates are women and most law school graduates are women. 65 years ago the U.S. had segregation! Now a black man is President, the black middle-class has exploded, etc. Look also at attitudes toward race, sexual orientation, religion - look at surveys from the 50s and 60s (and later). In fact, I think the pessimism in the above comment is completely backward. The track record is of amazing revolutions in human affairs.
    - anexprogrammer 10y ago
      We're not really disagreeing you know. That we can't eliminate shouldn't discourage us from striving to continue to improve. Human judges are the least worst option we have, despite and because of fallible human factors. Society has made huge progress, and is in many respects infinitely improved. Yet ethnic minorities are still subject to racism even from the Police and judicial system, women don't get paid as highly or get proportionately into senior or board roles. I'm not suggesting we stop, or seeing it pessimistically.
      - hackuser 10y ago
        Sorry I misunderstood!
hobbyjogger 10y ago
The study you're referencing assumed that the order in which the parolees appeared was random, which turned out not to be the case. More info here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12463053 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12463053
- anexprogrammer 10y ago
  Hadn't been aware of that before. Rather undermines the conclusions. Thanks.

hackuser 10y ago

> We're not likely to eliminate these factors any time soon. I disagree. Knowing about them can make a big difference, and training can teach people to avoid these errors.

anexprogrammer 10y ago
We can mitigate them to some extent with awareness and training. With research seeming to show subconscious biases remarkably difficult to remove, I sincerely doubt they can be eliminated. We haven't managed it in society and the workplace despite significant legislative effort.
- hackuser 10y ago
  > I sincerely doubt they can be eliminated. We haven't managed it in society and the workplace despite significant legislative effort. Right. Who made the standard (for anything!) 100% success? But society and the workplace have greatly improved, through social effort and also the resulting legislative one. Just 60 years ago, women were only allowed to be teachers and nurses; not long before that, they needed their husband's permission to get a job and were locked out of higher education for the most part. Now most college graduates are women and most law school graduates are women. 65 years ago the U.S. had segregation! Now a black man is President, the black middle-class has exploded, etc. Look also at attitudes toward race, sexual orientation, religion - look at surveys from the 50s and 60s (and later). In fact, I think the pessimism in the above comment is completely backward. The track record is of amazing revolutions in human affairs.
  - anexprogrammer 10y ago
    We're not really disagreeing you know. That we can't eliminate shouldn't discourage us from striving to continue to improve. Human judges are the least worst option we have, despite and because of fallible human factors. Society has made huge progress, and is in many respects infinitely improved. Yet ethnic minorities are still subject to racism even from the Police and judicial system, women don't get paid as highly or get proportionately into senior or board roles. I'm not suggesting we stop, or seeing it pessimistically.
    - hackuser 10y ago
      Sorry I misunderstood!

hobbyjogger 10y ago

The study you're referencing assumed that the order in which the parolees appeared was random, which turned out not to be the case. More info here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12463053 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12463053

anexprogrammer 10y ago
Hadn't been aware of that before. Rather undermines the conclusions. Thanks.