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Most of these training courses aren't designed by educators. One of the first things my girlfriend learned when she started her teaching career was how differen

Most of these training courses aren't designed by educators. One of the first things my girlfriend learned when she started her teaching career was how different people learn differently. Some people, it appears, learn better if you just hand them a book and let them read it in their own corner. Businesses seem to forget these basic lessons in favor of feel-good "team work" nonsense

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
onion2k 10y ago
One of the first things my girlfriend learned when she started her teaching career was how different people learn differently. Some people, it appears, learn better if you just hand them a book and let them read it in their own corner. Most studies have found that the idea people have different learning styles isn't actually true. People have a preference but it doesn't affect how much they learn. http://qz.com/585143/the-concept-of-different-learning-styles-is-one-of-the-greatest-neuroscience-myths/ http://qz.com/585143/the-concept-of-different-learning-style...
- thr0waway1239 10y ago
  To the extent that the author of that book is correct - they talk about visual, auditory or kinesthetic, I don't really think it is the same learning style we are talking about. The GP says some people learn better if you just hand them a book and let them read it in their own corner (i.e. don't expect extroversion as a precondition for the learning environment you create).
- cmdrfred 10y ago
  I can certainly learn faster from a book. Unless the teacher is Eminem, I can read much faster than they can speak. I've found that an hour of classroom instruction is about 15 minutes of reading for me.
  - koonsolo 10y ago
    True for me too. Also when there is a part you already know or partly know, you can go even faster.
  - Noseshine 10y ago
    Usually yes - but it depends. Anything programming related I rarely like as a lecture and completely agree with you, unlike it's general concepts and then it depends, see below. I'm an avid reader, so historically I always favored reading and only the last few years did I get a more nuanced opinion with exposure to new subjects and lecturers. On the other hand, when I took "Medical Neuroscience" [0], a pretty heavy course with 16 hrs/week ~25 hours (or was it 35?) lectures total (the 1st edition of that course - I have not checked if they made any changes to the edition online now, Coursera switched to a different course format), at least for the duration of the course I ignored the textbook [1] even though I had it. The lecturer was mesmerizing, I just started the videos and listened for hours - and actually learned. The fact that most of the time you do want to take that textbook (even for this exact same subject) is that it's exceedingly rare to find such a specimen of a teacher. Similarly with basic physiology lectures, even though they were done cheaply and he has stopped making new ones Aaron Mullally's lectures are of the same kind, I could just listen and listen and learn stuff. I tried many different ones, all of them prepared more "professionally" (I don't like that word because the dirtiest and cheapest solution can still be more professional than the one with the best packaging, but you know what I mean, I hope). Math, physics, chemistry, biology: It depends (so the same), I found lectures - I guess that actually means I found lecturers - that at least for me are better than learning the same from a book. Another example where given the choice between book and lecture I would take the lecture any time: [3] (and that is 100% because of the person giving the lecture). [0] https://www.coursera.org/learn/medical-neuroscience https://www.coursera.org/learn/medical-neuroscience [1] http://www.sinauer.com/neuroscience-621.html http://www.sinauer.com/neuroscience-621.html [2] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0JRvRB-VkJ3yeSEdXpe9ew https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0JRvRB-VkJ3yeSEdXpe9ew [3] https://www.edx.org/course/introduction-biology-secret-life-mitx-7-00x-3 https://www.edx.org/course/introduction-biology-secret-life-...
    - RileyKyeden 10y ago
- notalaser 10y ago
  It's likely true that, all things being equal, learning styles are equally efficient, but this is exactly one of those cases when all things are not equal. The super-interactive (and borderline childish) style of some training sessions is enough to alienate even dedicated learners; they won't learn anything, not because they have a unique learning style, but because they lose motivation, faith in the instructor and the course, and likely brush everything off as a waste of time.
  - __derek__ 10y ago
    I think this touches on personality types, too. People with strong anti-authoritarianism streaks are likely to be turned off by an instructor who attempts to organize those sorts of activities when their authority derives solely from the fact that they are the instructor of the course. Without proof (i.e. having taught me something), you're going to be tuned out when you resort to childish tactics. Reflecting back to these situations brought to mind the Seinfeld episode "The Pitch"[1] in which Jerry and George pitch a TV show to NBC executives. In it, the NBC team's leader expresses skepticism about George's idea, leading to this exchange: RUSSELL: Well, why am I watching it? GEORGE: Because it's on TV. RUSSELL: (Threatening) Not yet. Why are we doing this? Because it's what you say? Not for long. [1]: http://seinfeldscripts.com/ThePitch.htm http://seinfeldscripts.com/ThePitch.htm
  - jbb555 10y ago
    It certainly affects me. If I think a course is going to be super interactive I'll do everything I Can to avoid it
- balabaster 10y ago
  If there were a subscription service you could pay a nominal monthly fee just to have access to someone you could call up with questions and have them whiteboard you through it, that would be worth its weight in gold. I learn better if you give me a bunch of videos, access to documentation, someone knowledgeable I can ask pointed questions to in order to solidify or correct my understanding and an environment to which I can apply what I'm learning. I don't need someone to hold my hand 90% of the time, nor do I want to waste their time holding my hand for that 90%. I learn faster on my own, but it's way quicker to get unstuck when you can ask questions ... and some things you just can't learn without doing, as my Gran would say: You can't understand the texture of bread dough without getting your hands dirty. For technical stuff PluralSight et. al, Google, Safari and StackOverflow are immensely more useful than sitting in a class of other people learning to program, except for access to the professor when you need things answered.
- reitanqild 10y ago
  Tongue-in-cheek, but I don't want to take those studies seriously as long knowing about learning styles help people.
- keithpeter 10y ago
  http://itslifejimbutnotasweknowit.org.uk/files/LSRC_LearningStyles.pdf http://itslifejimbutnotasweknowit.org.uk/files/LSRC_Learning... Similar conclusions - with some evidence of benefit from VARK and similar sensory preference inventories. Coffield and his team also asked if other factors (reinforcement, regular assessment and monitoring &c) had a greater 'effect size'.
- jogjayr 10y ago
  > People have a preference but it doesn't affect how much they learn. But shouldn't learning in your preferred style affect motivation to learn, thereby affecting how much is learned?
RamenJunkie_ 10y ago
I feel like businesses also don't like when people prefer to "work alone" or "work on their own" because they just assume that if you can't see a person working, they are slacking off. Even if working in this case is training.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

onion2k 10y ago

One of the first things my girlfriend learned when she started her teaching career was how different people learn differently. Some people, it appears, learn better if you just hand them a book and let them read it in their own corner. Most studies have found that the idea people have different learning styles isn't actually true. People have a preference but it doesn't affect how much they learn. http://qz.com/585143/the-concept-of-different-learning-styles-is-one-of-the-greatest-neuroscience-myths/ http://qz.com/585143/the-concept-of-different-learning-style...

thr0waway1239 10y ago
To the extent that the author of that book is correct - they talk about visual, auditory or kinesthetic, I don't really think it is the same learning style we are talking about. The GP says some people learn better if you just hand them a book and let them read it in their own corner (i.e. don't expect extroversion as a precondition for the learning environment you create).
cmdrfred 10y ago
I can certainly learn faster from a book. Unless the teacher is Eminem, I can read much faster than they can speak. I've found that an hour of classroom instruction is about 15 minutes of reading for me.
- koonsolo 10y ago
  True for me too. Also when there is a part you already know or partly know, you can go even faster.
- Noseshine 10y ago
  Usually yes - but it depends. Anything programming related I rarely like as a lecture and completely agree with you, unlike it's general concepts and then it depends, see below. I'm an avid reader, so historically I always favored reading and only the last few years did I get a more nuanced opinion with exposure to new subjects and lecturers. On the other hand, when I took "Medical Neuroscience" [0], a pretty heavy course with 16 hrs/week ~25 hours (or was it 35?) lectures total (the 1st edition of that course - I have not checked if they made any changes to the edition online now, Coursera switched to a different course format), at least for the duration of the course I ignored the textbook [1] even though I had it. The lecturer was mesmerizing, I just started the videos and listened for hours - and actually learned. The fact that most of the time you do want to take that textbook (even for this exact same subject) is that it's exceedingly rare to find such a specimen of a teacher. Similarly with basic physiology lectures, even though they were done cheaply and he has stopped making new ones Aaron Mullally's lectures are of the same kind, I could just listen and listen and learn stuff. I tried many different ones, all of them prepared more "professionally" (I don't like that word because the dirtiest and cheapest solution can still be more professional than the one with the best packaging, but you know what I mean, I hope). Math, physics, chemistry, biology: It depends (so the same), I found lectures - I guess that actually means I found lecturers - that at least for me are better than learning the same from a book. Another example where given the choice between book and lecture I would take the lecture any time: [3] (and that is 100% because of the person giving the lecture). [0] https://www.coursera.org/learn/medical-neuroscience https://www.coursera.org/learn/medical-neuroscience [1] http://www.sinauer.com/neuroscience-621.html http://www.sinauer.com/neuroscience-621.html [2] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0JRvRB-VkJ3yeSEdXpe9ew https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0JRvRB-VkJ3yeSEdXpe9ew [3] https://www.edx.org/course/introduction-biology-secret-life-mitx-7-00x-3 https://www.edx.org/course/introduction-biology-secret-life-...
  - RileyKyeden 10y ago
notalaser 10y ago
It's likely true that, all things being equal, learning styles are equally efficient, but this is exactly one of those cases when all things are not equal. The super-interactive (and borderline childish) style of some training sessions is enough to alienate even dedicated learners; they won't learn anything, not because they have a unique learning style, but because they lose motivation, faith in the instructor and the course, and likely brush everything off as a waste of time.
- __derek__ 10y ago
  I think this touches on personality types, too. People with strong anti-authoritarianism streaks are likely to be turned off by an instructor who attempts to organize those sorts of activities when their authority derives solely from the fact that they are the instructor of the course. Without proof (i.e. having taught me something), you're going to be tuned out when you resort to childish tactics. Reflecting back to these situations brought to mind the Seinfeld episode "The Pitch"[1] in which Jerry and George pitch a TV show to NBC executives. In it, the NBC team's leader expresses skepticism about George's idea, leading to this exchange: RUSSELL: Well, why am I watching it? GEORGE: Because it's on TV. RUSSELL: (Threatening) Not yet. Why are we doing this? Because it's what you say? Not for long. [1]: http://seinfeldscripts.com/ThePitch.htm http://seinfeldscripts.com/ThePitch.htm
- jbb555 10y ago
  It certainly affects me. If I think a course is going to be super interactive I'll do everything I Can to avoid it
balabaster 10y ago
If there were a subscription service you could pay a nominal monthly fee just to have access to someone you could call up with questions and have them whiteboard you through it, that would be worth its weight in gold. I learn better if you give me a bunch of videos, access to documentation, someone knowledgeable I can ask pointed questions to in order to solidify or correct my understanding and an environment to which I can apply what I'm learning. I don't need someone to hold my hand 90% of the time, nor do I want to waste their time holding my hand for that 90%. I learn faster on my own, but it's way quicker to get unstuck when you can ask questions ... and some things you just can't learn without doing, as my Gran would say: You can't understand the texture of bread dough without getting your hands dirty. For technical stuff PluralSight et. al, Google, Safari and StackOverflow are immensely more useful than sitting in a class of other people learning to program, except for access to the professor when you need things answered.
reitanqild 10y ago
Tongue-in-cheek, but I don't want to take those studies seriously as long knowing about learning styles help people.
keithpeter 10y ago
http://itslifejimbutnotasweknowit.org.uk/files/LSRC_LearningStyles.pdf http://itslifejimbutnotasweknowit.org.uk/files/LSRC_Learning... Similar conclusions - with some evidence of benefit from VARK and similar sensory preference inventories. Coffield and his team also asked if other factors (reinforcement, regular assessment and monitoring &c) had a greater 'effect size'.
jogjayr 10y ago
> People have a preference but it doesn't affect how much they learn. But shouldn't learning in your preferred style affect motivation to learn, thereby affecting how much is learned?

RamenJunkie_ 10y ago

I feel like businesses also don't like when people prefer to "work alone" or "work on their own" because they just assume that if you can't see a person working, they are slacking off. Even if working in this case is training.