4 ms·

I think society is geared to rewarding the extroverts: You have to sell yourself, and BS you way to the top of the corporation or whatever group you're in. Mar

by RachelF 10y ago

I think society is geared to rewarding the extroverts: You have to sell yourself, and BS you way to the top of the corporation or whatever group you're in. Marketing is more important than technology. Few groups actually reward introverts, who may be doing most of the real work.

csydas 10y ago
As an introvert who works and has worked in an extrovert's role for nearly 10 years now, I'd advise not getting too caught up worrying over the distinction, and definitely don't buy into the stereotypes of either position. Just like not every extrovert is immediately likable, not every introvert is a smart and hard worker. I know you wrote "may", but I've just seen too many colleagues and too many of my employees fall into this trapping mindset, which can result in some really nasty work atmostpheres. The attitude one brings to a job should be appropriate for the work. There is truth that if you don't speak up, it's hard to hear you sometimes, but that doesn't mean the way you sell yourself is most important - you still need substance. I've watched as social charmers worked their way into my previous places of employment only to get shitcanned months later when it turns out you have to beat them with a stick to do even the simplest of tasks. I've also seen the same types of people and categorized them the same way, only to find out later that they were really doing tons of great things I just never knew about. This is more the manager/supervisor in me not wanting people to draw lines in the sand unnecessarily, but who you are is how you want to present yourself. I'm a shy guy by nature, and I know that at my last job my coworkers could never understand why I liked lunch alone or rarely went to company events, didn't buy into company pride, etc. But once I dug in and made an impact work-wise, it was made pretty clear that they couldn't imagine not having me around, even if I was quiet.
yoz-y 10y ago
The problem, I think, is that extroverts collaborate more easily and this makes particular problems easier and/or faster to solve. > Marketing is more important than technology. I assume you meant this as a jab (if not I apologise), however with proliferation of affordable and reproductible technology this is very true. Marketing is not only advertising, it is also knowing what problems your technology should solve and how to do it differently than myriads of your competitors.
- maxxxxx 10y ago
  "The problem, I think, is that extroverts collaborate more easily and this makes particular problems easier and/or faster to solve." In my company there are a lot of extroverts that only do work in group meetings. They are insecure working alone. So six people have to go over a document for two hours which the person that has called the meeting could have written alone and sent to others by email for review. There is no real collaboration going on in those meetings.
  - yoz-y 10y ago
    For me that is more of a problem of bureaucracy and middle management insecurity than extroverts.
    - maxxxxx 10y ago
      It's about being extrovert. I would never voluntarily go into a meeting with tons of people where it's all talk and nothing gets decided. I find it exhausting but other people find those meetings invigorating.
- quantumhobbit 10y ago
  In addition to collaborating, extroverts are also very good at disrupting introverts who are trying to work alone, making them relatively faster.
- wott 10y ago
  No, it is about creating problems to sell a solution.
  - yoz-y 10y ago
    HN is full of solutions that answer no real world problems (X written in Go; new framework to do Y; ...) Useless engineering and sleazy marketing go hand in hand. Marketing gets bad rep all of the time, but I think that is because often marketing is done (like you said) after one has something to sell. For me the order should be inverted: 1. Find a real world problem and identify potential customers (marketing) 2. Create an original solution that actually helps solve it (engineering) 3. Loops from marketing to engineering to improve the product If you are pondering what should you that could actually sell you are doing marketing.
Sir_Substance 10y ago
>I think society is geared to rewarding the extroverts: You have to sell yourself, and BS you way to the top of the corporation or whatever group you're in. It's a self-perpetuating observation bias. You don't see the successful introverts, because they don't go on TV talking about their amazing life journey etc. Ergo, everyone associates success with extroverts. There's actually no natural correlation between being an extrovert and being successful, but people /think/ one exists because of observer bias, and that makes it harder for introverts to succeed because they get passed over for hiring and so forth for not being "outgoing enough to be a leader" or whatever. The perception creates the reality.
- wolfgke 10y ago
  > You don't see the successful introverts, because they don't go on TV talking about their amazing life journey etc. > Ergo, everyone associates success with extroverts. Larry Page is known to be introvert.
  - noobiemcfoob 10y ago
    Exception proving the rule
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

by RachelF 10y ago

csydas 10y ago

As an introvert who works and has worked in an extrovert's role for nearly 10 years now, I'd advise not getting too caught up worrying over the distinction, and definitely don't buy into the stereotypes of either position. Just like not every extrovert is immediately likable, not every introvert is a smart and hard worker. I know you wrote "may", but I've just seen too many colleagues and too many of my employees fall into this trapping mindset, which can result in some really nasty work atmostpheres. The attitude one brings to a job should be appropriate for the work. There is truth that if you don't speak up, it's hard to hear you sometimes, but that doesn't mean the way you sell yourself is most important - you still need substance. I've watched as social charmers worked their way into my previous places of employment only to get shitcanned months later when it turns out you have to beat them with a stick to do even the simplest of tasks. I've also seen the same types of people and categorized them the same way, only to find out later that they were really doing tons of great things I just never knew about. This is more the manager/supervisor in me not wanting people to draw lines in the sand unnecessarily, but who you are is how you want to present yourself. I'm a shy guy by nature, and I know that at my last job my coworkers could never understand why I liked lunch alone or rarely went to company events, didn't buy into company pride, etc. But once I dug in and made an impact work-wise, it was made pretty clear that they couldn't imagine not having me around, even if I was quiet.

yoz-y 10y ago

The problem, I think, is that extroverts collaborate more easily and this makes particular problems easier and/or faster to solve. > Marketing is more important than technology. I assume you meant this as a jab (if not I apologise), however with proliferation of affordable and reproductible technology this is very true. Marketing is not only advertising, it is also knowing what problems your technology should solve and how to do it differently than myriads of your competitors.

maxxxxx 10y ago
"The problem, I think, is that extroverts collaborate more easily and this makes particular problems easier and/or faster to solve." In my company there are a lot of extroverts that only do work in group meetings. They are insecure working alone. So six people have to go over a document for two hours which the person that has called the meeting could have written alone and sent to others by email for review. There is no real collaboration going on in those meetings.
- yoz-y 10y ago
  For me that is more of a problem of bureaucracy and middle management insecurity than extroverts.
  - maxxxxx 10y ago
    It's about being extrovert. I would never voluntarily go into a meeting with tons of people where it's all talk and nothing gets decided. I find it exhausting but other people find those meetings invigorating.
quantumhobbit 10y ago
In addition to collaborating, extroverts are also very good at disrupting introverts who are trying to work alone, making them relatively faster.
wott 10y ago
No, it is about creating problems to sell a solution.
- yoz-y 10y ago
  HN is full of solutions that answer no real world problems (X written in Go; new framework to do Y; ...) Useless engineering and sleazy marketing go hand in hand. Marketing gets bad rep all of the time, but I think that is because often marketing is done (like you said) after one has something to sell. For me the order should be inverted: 1. Find a real world problem and identify potential customers (marketing) 2. Create an original solution that actually helps solve it (engineering) 3. Loops from marketing to engineering to improve the product If you are pondering what should you that could actually sell you are doing marketing.

Sir_Substance 10y ago

>I think society is geared to rewarding the extroverts: You have to sell yourself, and BS you way to the top of the corporation or whatever group you're in. It's a self-perpetuating observation bias. You don't see the successful introverts, because they don't go on TV talking about their amazing life journey etc. Ergo, everyone associates success with extroverts. There's actually no natural correlation between being an extrovert and being successful, but people /think/ one exists because of observer bias, and that makes it harder for introverts to succeed because they get passed over for hiring and so forth for not being "outgoing enough to be a leader" or whatever. The perception creates the reality.

wolfgke 10y ago
> You don't see the successful introverts, because they don't go on TV talking about their amazing life journey etc. > Ergo, everyone associates success with extroverts. Larry Page is known to be introvert.
- noobiemcfoob 10y ago
  Exception proving the rule
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]