5 ms·

> On this day and age many don't want to pay for tools. Strange logic: if everyone followed that train of thought, we'd all settle for whatever quality tools a

> On this day and age many don't want to pay for tools. Strange logic: if everyone followed that train of thought, we'd all settle for whatever quality tools are available so long as the price is $0. I'd much rather pay for a valuable tool than use a subpar free tool.

mirekrusin 10y ago
That's you. What about the other 7bn people?
- markcerqueira 10y ago
  I'm sure if you look, you'll find someone that has a differing opinion. This doesn't make one opinion more valid than the other.
labrador 10y ago
It's a common fallacy to associate quality with price. Generally yes, but not always. Sublime Text certainly isn't 70 dollars better than Atom or VS Code.
- jskulski 10y ago
  It was for many years (because the others didn't exist)
- jskulski 10y ago
  It was for many years (because the others didn't exist)
- mattkrea 10y ago
  Maybe not $70.. but I always find myself going back to it.
- voxic11 10y ago
  Eh but it existed for long before Atom and VS code. (disclaimer I paid the $70 and felt it was well worth the money at the time, these days yeah maybe I wouldn't but I still do find myself using it a lot) Edit: To expand, sublime is still by far my favorite TEXT editor. I just don't find doing everyday text editing tasks in VSCode to be pleasant at all, its an amazing IDE though!. Atom is much better for the task but the responsiveness and large file handling capabilities of sublime makes it the clear winner. If you already paid the $70 for a licence back when atom didn't exist anyways...
- forrestthewoods 10y ago
  That depends on how valuable your time is. Are you working on a project that makes money? Will a productivity tool increase your productivity by half a percent? Then that tool is worth hundreds of dollars. If not thousands.
- drchickensalad 10y ago
  I see you haven't abused multicursors.
  - ryanplant-au 10y ago
    VSCode and Atom both have multicursors.
    - drchickensalad 10y ago
      Much, much less powerful fotms of them.
    - salamisultan 10y ago
      This plant follows an honor system!
  - cobby 10y ago
    VS Code has support of multiple cursors. See https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/editor/editingevolved#_multiple-selections https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/editor/editingevolved#_mu...
    - gbersac 10y ago
      I remember, it was less powerful when I tested it few month ago. Went back to sublime (even though I use idea at work).
- virmundi 10y ago
  I think it depends on how much you treasure battery life. Electron based apps suffer from poor battery life due to the Chromium unpinning. JS is resource intensive compared to C++. You can probably get an extra 20-35% battery life out of Sublime vs Atom. If you don't have the ability to plugin while out, it might be worth the piece of mind.
- code_chimp 10y ago
  For me, it is. Some of the main points that makes it worth money to me are the plugin ecosystem is huge, the editor is fast, its layout management (panes in columns/rows) is incredible, and it was the first editor I had that gave me multi-cursors. I like where VS Code is going and I try to use it when I can, but most of the keybindings and shortcuts I have memorized are for Sublime and IntelliJ based IDEs.
  - distrill 10y ago
    The only thing you listed that sublime uniquely offers is that it was your first and you prefer their key bindings.
- pjmlp 10y ago
  I wasn't only associating quality with price, but also pointing out that many of the 2016's Emacs and vi users would not use them if they were only available as commercial software. Regardless of their quality, because the actual IT generation wants to earn money with tools they got for free (beer), while other professions people do pay for their tools.
  - thaumasiotes 10y ago
    > Regardless of their quality, because the actual IT generation wants to earn money with tools they got for free (beer), while other professions people do pay for their tools. You seem to feel strongly enough about this to repeat it nearly word-for-word in multiple comments. Trust me, every profession wants to pay less for its tools. And no one, in IT or out, is choosing their tools "regardless of quality".
    - pjmlp 10y ago
      I feel strongly about it because this mentality reduced the market of selling software tools to a niche, to the point that to earn money selling tools, we have to sell them to enterprise customers, the only ones willing to pay for software. This is why most companies selling such software tools have switched their basic versions from "trial during X days/trial license" to free (beer), while trying to seduce developers to eventually pay for the full version.
HugoDaniel 10y ago
Thats a nice way to start a flame war: hinting that vi and emacs are subpar tools.
pjmlp 10y ago
It is not a strange logic and I am not talking only about quality. I am talking about IT being one of the few professions in 2016, with individuals that expect to earn money while using tools produced with the effort of others for free (beer), while not giving anything back (not even bug reports, unless their own customers press them against the wall). So the question isn't about the quality, rather how many Emacs and vi users would have actually payed for them, if they were only available as commercial software?
- bluepill 10y ago
  Vim is charity ware actually or at least that's how it was qualified when I started using it. Most of the long time vim users I know have donated several times. Vim and Emacs also have shit loads of plugins, which can make them behave just like Atom or VSCode so as usual I think it's just a matter of preference.
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    I am yet to know anyone that gave any money to Vim. Would those shit loads of plugins exist if people had to pay for them?

mirekrusin 10y ago

That's you. What about the other 7bn people?

markcerqueira 10y ago
I'm sure if you look, you'll find someone that has a differing opinion. This doesn't make one opinion more valid than the other.

labrador 10y ago

It's a common fallacy to associate quality with price. Generally yes, but not always. Sublime Text certainly isn't 70 dollars better than Atom or VS Code.

jskulski 10y ago
It was for many years (because the others didn't exist)
jskulski 10y ago
It was for many years (because the others didn't exist)
mattkrea 10y ago
Maybe not $70.. but I always find myself going back to it.
voxic11 10y ago
Eh but it existed for long before Atom and VS code. (disclaimer I paid the $70 and felt it was well worth the money at the time, these days yeah maybe I wouldn't but I still do find myself using it a lot) Edit: To expand, sublime is still by far my favorite TEXT editor. I just don't find doing everyday text editing tasks in VSCode to be pleasant at all, its an amazing IDE though!. Atom is much better for the task but the responsiveness and large file handling capabilities of sublime makes it the clear winner. If you already paid the $70 for a licence back when atom didn't exist anyways...
forrestthewoods 10y ago
That depends on how valuable your time is. Are you working on a project that makes money? Will a productivity tool increase your productivity by half a percent? Then that tool is worth hundreds of dollars. If not thousands.
drchickensalad 10y ago
I see you haven't abused multicursors.
- ryanplant-au 10y ago
  VSCode and Atom both have multicursors.
  - drchickensalad 10y ago
    Much, much less powerful fotms of them.
  - salamisultan 10y ago
    This plant follows an honor system!
- cobby 10y ago
  VS Code has support of multiple cursors. See https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/editor/editingevolved#_multiple-selections https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/editor/editingevolved#_mu...
  - gbersac 10y ago
    I remember, it was less powerful when I tested it few month ago. Went back to sublime (even though I use idea at work).
virmundi 10y ago
I think it depends on how much you treasure battery life. Electron based apps suffer from poor battery life due to the Chromium unpinning. JS is resource intensive compared to C++. You can probably get an extra 20-35% battery life out of Sublime vs Atom. If you don't have the ability to plugin while out, it might be worth the piece of mind.
code_chimp 10y ago
For me, it is. Some of the main points that makes it worth money to me are the plugin ecosystem is huge, the editor is fast, its layout management (panes in columns/rows) is incredible, and it was the first editor I had that gave me multi-cursors. I like where VS Code is going and I try to use it when I can, but most of the keybindings and shortcuts I have memorized are for Sublime and IntelliJ based IDEs.
- distrill 10y ago
  The only thing you listed that sublime uniquely offers is that it was your first and you prefer their key bindings.
pjmlp 10y ago
I wasn't only associating quality with price, but also pointing out that many of the 2016's Emacs and vi users would not use them if they were only available as commercial software. Regardless of their quality, because the actual IT generation wants to earn money with tools they got for free (beer), while other professions people do pay for their tools.
- thaumasiotes 10y ago
  > Regardless of their quality, because the actual IT generation wants to earn money with tools they got for free (beer), while other professions people do pay for their tools. You seem to feel strongly enough about this to repeat it nearly word-for-word in multiple comments. Trust me, every profession wants to pay less for its tools. And no one, in IT or out, is choosing their tools "regardless of quality".
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    I feel strongly about it because this mentality reduced the market of selling software tools to a niche, to the point that to earn money selling tools, we have to sell them to enterprise customers, the only ones willing to pay for software. This is why most companies selling such software tools have switched their basic versions from "trial during X days/trial license" to free (beer), while trying to seduce developers to eventually pay for the full version.

HugoDaniel 10y ago

Thats a nice way to start a flame war: hinting that vi and emacs are subpar tools.

pjmlp 10y ago

It is not a strange logic and I am not talking only about quality. I am talking about IT being one of the few professions in 2016, with individuals that expect to earn money while using tools produced with the effort of others for free (beer), while not giving anything back (not even bug reports, unless their own customers press them against the wall). So the question isn't about the quality, rather how many Emacs and vi users would have actually payed for them, if they were only available as commercial software?

bluepill 10y ago
Vim is charity ware actually or at least that's how it was qualified when I started using it. Most of the long time vim users I know have donated several times. Vim and Emacs also have shit loads of plugins, which can make them behave just like Atom or VSCode so as usual I think it's just a matter of preference.
- pjmlp 10y ago
  I am yet to know anyone that gave any money to Vim. Would those shit loads of plugins exist if people had to pay for them?