3 ms·

> why should be whites and men so severely disadvantaged Where, exactly, would one be able to objectively measure this disadvantage using published data?

by runako 10y ago

bitL 10y ago
The thing is that nobody cares if a white male experiences any sort of problems with anyone, but the moment a black person or a woman says something, everybody rushes in. Now we see white males in blue collar jobs are committing suicide in huge numbers and many checked out of society completely (unemployment + gaming, porn) as they don't see any point to be involved as they are invisible to women in their 20s and get automatic scorn whenever they are accused of something. There are now many women-only places/clubs but the same is denied to men in the US. Does this really seem fine to you?
- runako 10y ago
  > Does this really seem fine to you? You're attributing to me emotions I did not express. Obviously, because I didn't offer an opinion on anything in my question. >There are now many women-only places/clubs but the same is denied to men in the US. This is demonstrably false, and can be disproved with Google in seconds. But I'll surmise you aren't all that concerned with the existence of women's social clubs as a counterpoint to men's social clubs. I'll give the benefit of the doubt and guess that your concerns are likely about something more substantive. I was just asking where one can objectively measure the severe disadvantage of white men in America. A disadvantage so profound surely would be obvious in data of education, political power, wealth, or employment, or the like. Your contention is at odds with what I would have guessed based on having lived my life in America. So: what publicly-available data set would you use to exhibit this severe disadvantage?
  - bitL 10y ago
    I am not an American, so it's only tangentially related to my life (in a way that my part of the world is going to experience it 10 years later), or that I have to be more careful not to accidentally trigger anyone on my next Hawaiian vacation (like last time I visited Old Lahaina Luau and some black woman from NYC wanted to kick me out of the place I paid for because she wanted to sit there - is being a "black woman" the secret superpower to do crazy irresponsible things with no penalty nowadays?). Anyway, possible interesting stats for your further research: - average/median earning of single women in their 20s comparing to the same group of men in officially recognized fields (no sugar daddy incomes etc.) - ratio of female/male university graduates - number of male-only clubs forced to close or allow female participation comparing to the number of female-only clubs Frankly, I couldn't care less about men-/women-only clubs, I just don't understand why former are scorned upon and latter are celebrated. I come from a part of Europe that was pretty equal for a long time so seeing this happening seems extreme to me.
    - runako 10y ago
      > I am not an American This may explain a lot. Perhaps our current media exports are offering a misleading perception. I would suggest you look at the public data, as it might be a better basis for forming conclusions. I would wager a beer that actual data (NB: or any time spent in pretty much any corridor of power in America) will not support the conclusion that white men in America are disadvantaged relative to other groups. Also: we don't actually have all that many social clubs here; they are in some ways a relic from the past. I would suggest they are opening up to black people and women as a result of self-interested response to market forces. The types of clubs that denied admission to black people until well into the 1990s aren't the types of clubs that cave because Huffington Post ran an unflattering piece.
    - thescribe 10y ago
      I feel like you've brought up some really good points, but I don't know how I'd go about validating them.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]

> why should be whites and men so severely disadvantaged Where, exactly, would one be able to objectively measure this disadvantage using published data?

by runako 10y ago

> why should be whites and men so severely disadvantaged Where, exactly, would one be able to objectively measure this disadvantage using published data?

bitL 10y ago

The thing is that nobody cares if a white male experiences any sort of problems with anyone, but the moment a black person or a woman says something, everybody rushes in. Now we see white males in blue collar jobs are committing suicide in huge numbers and many checked out of society completely (unemployment + gaming, porn) as they don't see any point to be involved as they are invisible to women in their 20s and get automatic scorn whenever they are accused of something. There are now many women-only places/clubs but the same is denied to men in the US. Does this really seem fine to you?

runako 10y ago
> Does this really seem fine to you? You're attributing to me emotions I did not express. Obviously, because I didn't offer an opinion on anything in my question. >There are now many women-only places/clubs but the same is denied to men in the US. This is demonstrably false, and can be disproved with Google in seconds. But I'll surmise you aren't all that concerned with the existence of women's social clubs as a counterpoint to men's social clubs. I'll give the benefit of the doubt and guess that your concerns are likely about something more substantive. I was just asking where one can objectively measure the severe disadvantage of white men in America. A disadvantage so profound surely would be obvious in data of education, political power, wealth, or employment, or the like. Your contention is at odds with what I would have guessed based on having lived my life in America. So: what publicly-available data set would you use to exhibit this severe disadvantage?
- bitL 10y ago
  I am not an American, so it's only tangentially related to my life (in a way that my part of the world is going to experience it 10 years later), or that I have to be more careful not to accidentally trigger anyone on my next Hawaiian vacation (like last time I visited Old Lahaina Luau and some black woman from NYC wanted to kick me out of the place I paid for because she wanted to sit there - is being a "black woman" the secret superpower to do crazy irresponsible things with no penalty nowadays?). Anyway, possible interesting stats for your further research: - average/median earning of single women in their 20s comparing to the same group of men in officially recognized fields (no sugar daddy incomes etc.) - ratio of female/male university graduates - number of male-only clubs forced to close or allow female participation comparing to the number of female-only clubs Frankly, I couldn't care less about men-/women-only clubs, I just don't understand why former are scorned upon and latter are celebrated. I come from a part of Europe that was pretty equal for a long time so seeing this happening seems extreme to me.
  - runako 10y ago
    > I am not an American This may explain a lot. Perhaps our current media exports are offering a misleading perception. I would suggest you look at the public data, as it might be a better basis for forming conclusions. I would wager a beer that actual data (NB: or any time spent in pretty much any corridor of power in America) will not support the conclusion that white men in America are disadvantaged relative to other groups. Also: we don't actually have all that many social clubs here; they are in some ways a relic from the past. I would suggest they are opening up to black people and women as a result of self-interested response to market forces. The types of clubs that denied admission to black people until well into the 1990s aren't the types of clubs that cave because Huffington Post ran an unflattering piece.
  - thescribe 10y ago
    I feel like you've brought up some really good points, but I don't know how I'd go about validating them.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]