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Diversity initiatives for the tech world baffle me. The tech world is already very diverse, along lines that transcend race and gender. I am talking about nati

Diversity initiatives for the tech world baffle me. The tech world is already very diverse, along lines that transcend race and gender. I am talking about national diversity. Engineering teams are composed of a huge percentage of foreign born workers who carry truly diverse experiences. The difference in experience between nationalities completely trumps the differences in experience between gender and race within the same nationality. Looking for diversity in the form of race and gender is unproductive given the current diversity in the work force. American females have a very similar experience as American males, as do African Americans and White Americans in this context. Americans regardless of race and gender are all part of the same tribe. The current diversity in the tech world have made in groups almost non-existent. No one nationality has had a large enough share of the engineering population for in groups to form and be problematic. tldr: Diversity in the form of nationality is prevalent in the tech world. National diversity creates true diversity while gender and race diversity creates insignificant diversity.

stale2002 10y ago
Most women engineers seem to disagree with you. The experience of women engineers is vastly different than those of male engineers.
- PavlovsCat 10y ago
  Nah, they don't seem to, and it's not. Isn't intellectual debate fun? Also, what do they disagree on - that an Iraqi bombed to death is worse off than even a poor albino woman in the US? That starving to death in Africa as a male is worse than being a female engineer wherever? Technically, you just called "most female engineers" very ignorant and selfish.
  - stale2002 10y ago
    Maybe you should talk to some women engineers sometime and get their opinion. Because I have spoken to a lot of them, and read about many of their experiences. And the vast majority of them say the same thing. That they have to deal with serious problems that their male counterparts do not. And just because other people have things worse, doesn't mean that other important problems don't exist.
    - jshevek 10y ago
      I've also spoken to a lot of them, and the majority (of them) completely disagree with you. Maybe both of our sets of women engineers involve some selection bias? Regardless, I find this... > Maybe you should talk to some women engineers sometime and get their opinion. ... and the implication that you have enough information to conclude that the parent simply _could not_ have already talked to women engineers - and the further implication that your assessment of the opinions of women engineers must necessarily be canonical - to be strangely arrogant, condescending, and unconstructive.
      - stale2002 10y ago
        I don't know what to tell you man. We can just look at the article. Or any of the posts in this thread that claim to be from a woman. Every post from the article seems to support my claim and not yours. Thats only N= 4 or 5, but thats still something. "and the implication that you have enough information to conclude that the parent simply _could not_ have already talked to women engineers " Yes, this is indeed my implication. That he could not have possibly already talked to very many women. I would say the same thing if someone were to claim "Racism in America is over!" Such a person who makes this claim has clearly not talked to very many black people, or hasn't listened to them.
        PavlovsCat 10y ago
        > Yes, this is indeed my implication. That he could not have possibly already talked to very many women. Wait, me? Heh. That proves, as a matter of fact, that you don't know shit about me. > I would say the same thing if someone were to claim "Racism in America is over!" Except I didn't make any such declaration, I said what I actually said, and you deflected from those actual words by fantasizing about me based on a straw man. I didn't say everything is fair for women, I say there is way bigger unfairness on other levels, up to murder and carpet bombing, and I know plenty of intelligent strong women who exactly zero problems not only realizing that, they'd feel insulted if I didn't assume they know that. I mean, geez.
    - PavlovsCat 10y ago
jchendy 10y ago
> American females have a very similar experience as American males How can you say that after reading the first question in the article? Do you think the editor was just cherry picking the most extreme anecdotes they could find?
- generic_user 10y ago
  I don't think anyone has the same experience that anyone else has regardless of the gender. But this whole project is one big carefully edited carefully constructed exercise in social activism designed to promote the feminist narrative that the tech industry is a horrible misogynistic man cave. And also spread the idea that Male dominated professions are somehow inherently bad and need to redeemed by stuffing more Women into the industry by force.

stale2002 10y ago

Most women engineers seem to disagree with you. The experience of women engineers is vastly different than those of male engineers.

PavlovsCat 10y ago
Nah, they don't seem to, and it's not. Isn't intellectual debate fun? Also, what do they disagree on - that an Iraqi bombed to death is worse off than even a poor albino woman in the US? That starving to death in Africa as a male is worse than being a female engineer wherever? Technically, you just called "most female engineers" very ignorant and selfish.
- stale2002 10y ago
  Maybe you should talk to some women engineers sometime and get their opinion. Because I have spoken to a lot of them, and read about many of their experiences. And the vast majority of them say the same thing. That they have to deal with serious problems that their male counterparts do not. And just because other people have things worse, doesn't mean that other important problems don't exist.
  - jshevek 10y ago
    I've also spoken to a lot of them, and the majority (of them) completely disagree with you. Maybe both of our sets of women engineers involve some selection bias? Regardless, I find this... > Maybe you should talk to some women engineers sometime and get their opinion. ... and the implication that you have enough information to conclude that the parent simply _could not_ have already talked to women engineers - and the further implication that your assessment of the opinions of women engineers must necessarily be canonical - to be strangely arrogant, condescending, and unconstructive.
    - stale2002 10y ago
      I don't know what to tell you man. We can just look at the article. Or any of the posts in this thread that claim to be from a woman. Every post from the article seems to support my claim and not yours. Thats only N= 4 or 5, but thats still something. "and the implication that you have enough information to conclude that the parent simply _could not_ have already talked to women engineers " Yes, this is indeed my implication. That he could not have possibly already talked to very many women. I would say the same thing if someone were to claim "Racism in America is over!" Such a person who makes this claim has clearly not talked to very many black people, or hasn't listened to them.
      - PavlovsCat 10y ago
        > Yes, this is indeed my implication. That he could not have possibly already talked to very many women. Wait, me? Heh. That proves, as a matter of fact, that you don't know shit about me. > I would say the same thing if someone were to claim "Racism in America is over!" Except I didn't make any such declaration, I said what I actually said, and you deflected from those actual words by fantasizing about me based on a straw man. I didn't say everything is fair for women, I say there is way bigger unfairness on other levels, up to murder and carpet bombing, and I know plenty of intelligent strong women who exactly zero problems not only realizing that, they'd feel insulted if I didn't assume they know that. I mean, geez.
  - PavlovsCat 10y ago

jchendy 10y ago

> American females have a very similar experience as American males How can you say that after reading the first question in the article? Do you think the editor was just cherry picking the most extreme anecdotes they could find?

generic_user 10y ago
I don't think anyone has the same experience that anyone else has regardless of the gender. But this whole project is one big carefully edited carefully constructed exercise in social activism designed to promote the feminist narrative that the tech industry is a horrible misogynistic man cave. And also spread the idea that Male dominated professions are somehow inherently bad and need to redeemed by stuffing more Women into the industry by force.