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I think that getting women involved in STEM does exactly this: > attacking the mental characteristics that lead to sexist thought It's a forcing function. I r

by zamalek 10y ago

I think that getting women involved in STEM does exactly this: > attacking the mental characteristics that lead to sexist thought It's a forcing function. I really think that the current plan is the most logical approach given the current situation; though, we do need to eventually move away from it. Exactly when is going to be hard to nail down; too soon and everyone will revert to their sexist ways, too late and it's ceremony - not change. In lieu of what you are saying, everyone needs to come to the table. This type of thing also needs to go away: > Ada: [...] Otherwise I get home at night and realize I haven’t heard another woman’s voice all day. I understand where she's coming from, though. As a trailblazer it might be hard when you realize that you are alone.

tomc1985 10y ago
> I think that getting women involved in STEM does exactly this: > attacking the mental characteristics that lead to sexist thought I agree, but only as long as the end result is the best candidate for the job being hired. Granting special consideration to a group is just as bad as shutting them out.
- zamalek 10y ago
  Exactly: * It becomes impossible for women to measure their growth. "Did I earn this promotion because of my gender?" As a man I face this reality all the time and it sucks. * It becomes impossible for society to measure progress in terms of the overall moral compass. "Are people only hiring women because they are forced to?"
  - mavhc 10y ago
    Doesn't matter in the end, once you get equality, then you can stop the positive bias, and also the problems of existing bias should reduce to near zero
    - ManlyBread 10y ago
      How utopian.
rndgermandude 10y ago
The "involved in STEM" can also go too far. For example more than half the bachelor degrees in biology are earned by women these days[1], which is nice. But why do we still need special girls/women events to promote biology to women, when in fact we should promote biology to all? Also, where are the programs to get boys interested in education or psychology, both of which are over three quarters female? This simply does not happen, at least not at scale, because the idea that it is women and women alone who must be "interested" in various things is too prevalent at the moment, for the right reasons but the wrong outcomes, if you ask me. [1] http://www.randalolson.com/2014/06/14/percentage-of-bachelors-degrees-conferred-to-women-by-major-1970-2012/ http://www.randalolson.com/2014/06/14/percentage-of-bachelor...

by zamalek 10y ago

tomc1985 10y ago

> I think that getting women involved in STEM does exactly this: > attacking the mental characteristics that lead to sexist thought I agree, but only as long as the end result is the best candidate for the job being hired. Granting special consideration to a group is just as bad as shutting them out.

zamalek 10y ago
Exactly: * It becomes impossible for women to measure their growth. "Did I earn this promotion because of my gender?" As a man I face this reality all the time and it sucks. * It becomes impossible for society to measure progress in terms of the overall moral compass. "Are people only hiring women because they are forced to?"
- mavhc 10y ago
  Doesn't matter in the end, once you get equality, then you can stop the positive bias, and also the problems of existing bias should reduce to near zero
  - ManlyBread 10y ago
    How utopian.

rndgermandude 10y ago

The "involved in STEM" can also go too far. For example more than half the bachelor degrees in biology are earned by women these days[1], which is nice. But why do we still need special girls/women events to promote biology to women, when in fact we should promote biology to all? Also, where are the programs to get boys interested in education or psychology, both of which are over three quarters female? This simply does not happen, at least not at scale, because the idea that it is women and women alone who must be "interested" in various things is too prevalent at the moment, for the right reasons but the wrong outcomes, if you ask me. [1] http://www.randalolson.com/2014/06/14/percentage-of-bachelors-degrees-conferred-to-women-by-major-1970-2012/ http://www.randalolson.com/2014/06/14/percentage-of-bachelor...