8 ms·
Ask everyone you work with for coffee. Please don't omit the women. I've mentored new hires, and in that context it's easy to say, "hey can we get tea and talk
by wrsh07 10y ago
Ask everyone you work with for coffee. Please don't omit the women.
I've mentored new hires, and in that context it's easy to say, "hey can we get tea and talk about how the first few weeks have been?"
- exolymph 10y agoYeah, this. It's weird to single out women and it's equally weird to not include women. The whole point of these discussions and elaborate rigmaroles is to treat people the same regardless of gender.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- grace_engineer 10y agoHello, I am Grace. Please include women in the workplace. Talk to us. Don't omit us. If you aren't sure if it's HR appropriate to talk to women at your workplace please check with your HR team. I hope your HR team will encourage you to talk to women and ask what they like or dislike about their day-to-day. If they mention concerns or problems they’re having, I hope your HR team will encourage you to ask if there’s any way you could help make it better. We are engineers answering from different countries. Different countries have different cultural norms and laws.
- whamlastxmas 10y agoI have a lot of respect for the concepts discussed here, but as a side note "check with your HR team" is a pretty bad idea in most cases. As it's often said, HR is there to protect the company. Not to help employees. Approaching HR with the question "Is it ok to talk to women?" is going to make that HR employee make a note in your file that you're potentially causing a harassing environment and there's documentation of you specifically targeting female employees. Not to mention, it sounds like a loaded a question. The type of thing someone would ask after a woman sounded offended or rebuked him, and the guy is going to HR to try to preemptively do damage control and get his side of the story out first. Don't go to HR with your problems, it can only hurt you. If you're the victim of something inappropriate in the workplace, seek outside legal advice and follow their direction in communicating with HR.
- hobs 10y agoSeconded, I have never worked at a company where talking to the HR team was a good idea for any reason. If you are thinking about it you should probably seek a lawyer because they are not your friend.
- paulddraper 10y agoTaking to HR is like talking to the cops. It's only a good thing when you have the grievance.
- lomnakkus 10y agoEven then they can probably nail you for something if they're so inclined.
- netule 10y agoAgreed, HR exists to protect the company, nothing else. Nothing related to gender, but I once had a coworker at a mid-sized company angrily threaten me in his cubicle: "if we weren't in the office, I would slit your throat." I immediately went to HR about it and literally the first thing they asked me after I told them was "can anyone corroborate your story?" I couldn't since nobody overheard us, so I was screwed. It was the only time in my life that I actually feared for my life from another human being -- especially since I tried to report him. I walked to my car with a friend that night, fearing he'd be waiting for me in the parking lot. This coworker had received complaints for other issues from others in my department as well, but the company just didn't act. He remained there until he finally was fired for incompetence.
- Senji 10y agoYou should have talked to the police too.
- nickpsecurity 10y agoI second this. Grace's advice to include women is good. Going to HR is risky. My strategy is to just treat everyone about the same as well as I can. Make sure the pattern is clear in people's minds. Helps if any disputes, esp false claims, make it to HR. I hang out with them, too, if they're alright. I learn from the good ones. Anyway, it has side benefit that they mentally compare their experiences around me with what they hear. Should match.
- RonanTheGrey 10y agoAside from wives, other elephant in the room: accusations of harassment, sexual or otherwise. So easy to make. I'd be curious to quantify the chilling effect this has on office relations.
- notyourwork 10y ago> If you aren't sure if it's HR appropriate to talk to women at your workplace please check with your HR team. In what workplace is it not appropriate to speak to someone else?
- andrepd 10y ago>If you aren't sure if it's HR appropriate to talk to women at your workplace I'm not sure what you mean by this. What's the meaning of "HR appropriate"?
- MollyR 10y agoI agree, HR, or talking to a lawyer about the cultural norms and laws is super important. I've seen a few guys with good intentions to help our struggle, but just not socially savvy get in trouble, and just become super bitter against women.
- nsxwolf 10y agoMy wife would be furious.
- daxorid 10y agoElephant in the room. Nobody seems to want to discuss the very real chilling effect of spousal mate-guarding behavior on workplace camaraderie. Thank you sir.
- mrtron 10y agoDidn't know this was a thing. Can you explain why it would be a problem?
- __s 10y agoShun women because if I casually mention saying something about having talked to a non male while my wife wasn't around the wife'll beat me. If I don't say anything about talking to non males then I'm hiding things, which never goes well if wife ever meets a non male coworker who doesn't describe me as super shy
- Chinjut 10y agoY'all have some super-paranoid jealous partners, if you can't even talk to a colleague of a particular gender, purely as colleagues. I hope both for your partner and for you that they stop being that way someday.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- junke 10y agoThis put this recent article in a new light: "Everything i am afraid might happen if i ask new acquaintances to get coffee." http://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/everything-i-am-afraid-might-happen-if-i-ask-new-acquaintances-to-get-coffee http://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/everything-i-am-... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12334272 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12334272
- bjourne 10y agoWhat about asking no one? :) Some of us prefers to drink our coffee by ourselves.
- Broken_Hippo 10y agoThat is perfectly acceptable. Well, you know, some folks will look down on you for the antisocial bit of it (which is a shame, some people relish their alone time), but if you are doing it equally, no real harm done either.
- bjourne 10y agoAnd some folks will look down on you for being a female. Guess we are in the same boat?
- Broken_Hippo 10y agoOh, I give them other reasons as well. I'm pretty quiet myself, I'm an immigrant, and my hair is blue. :D Edit: I actually find the woman thing being the least of the problems now. It was a bigger issue living in the US than here in Norway, it seems.
- tedmiston 10y agoThere's one coffee shop in my city where startup people just all happen to turn up at. I find going there by myself and just casually bumping into others throughout the day is nice without taking up too much time.
- wrsh07 10y agoLook at the context: what is a non obvious way one could help a female engineer? Mentoring them. That might include checking up on them eg perhaps by chatting over coffee. At the least, if you are mentoring male colleagues (even informally), you should try to give similar guidance to your female colleagues. I don't care about your coffee habits. There is a conversation happening, and you're responding to only one part of it.
- Grangar 10y agoThis whole thing sounds like it was thought up by Jared from the Silicon Valley TV series