4 ms·

The usual arguments against your point have been well argued before, but I will repeat it here, because people all too often trip up on the seeming unassailable

by prmph 10y ago

The usual arguments against your point have been well argued before, but I will repeat it here, because people all too often trip up on the seeming unassailable logic of your position: Men are statistically more likely to commit violent crimes than women, and 100% of crime is committed by humans. Would you suggest that "men" and "humans" as classes should be discriminated against as a result? What if, statistically, there were some weird factor, like the shape of ears, that correlated more strongly with the quality of a guest. Would you base your hosting decisions on that? You don't think it too neat and simplistic that, with race being something that speaks to the deepest prejudices in people, "data" has been found and collected that appears to support such prejudices? Statistically, poor people might be a net drain on economy. Do you suggest we get rid of them?

dragonwriter 10y ago
> 100% of crime is committed by humans. This is not true; 100% of crimes are committed by persons, but both natural persons (humans) and juridical persons (corporations, etc.) commit crimes, and its possible for the latter to commit a crime when none of the individual owners or agents are, as individuals, guilty of a crime. > Would you suggest that "men" and "humans" as classes should be discriminated against as a result? But, the latter kind of discrimination is the reason that the claim about humans committing 100% of crime is approximately (that is, but for crimes by juridical persons) true -- only humans commit crimes because acts are only criminal when committed by humans, so discrimination against humans is the reason for rather than a response to the condition you identify.
simonsarris 10y ago
> Would you suggest that "men" and "humans" as classes should be discriminated against as a result? Yes, if you can sell a night's stay for the same price to a houseplant as you can to a human, it would seem wisest to board the houseplant at every opportunity. > What if, statistically, there were some weird factor... I would like an AI to make all my booking picks for me, but not one that aims to maximize diversity or exclusivity, simply one that minimizes risk. If it turned out the AI found a strong correlation with ear shape and risk, or favorite color and risk, that would be just fine, as long as it is correct. I have no such AI, all I have are some mere heuristics gathered from the work of actuarial scientists (Insurers). So if a twenty-something male and a fifty-something female both request the same night, why wouldn't I choose the older female every single time? (Note that I am discriminating against my very own demographic, not that my feelings play any part in this, I'm simply attempting to minimize risk when booking, when there's an option to do so.)
- kmonsen 10y ago
  You choose to use the obvious case, but it would be just as true for the other one: Yes, if you can sell a night's stay for the same price to a woman as you can to a man, it would seem wisest to board the woman at every opportunity.
  - gg5ever 10y ago
    Yes - it's legal to discriminate by sex. If you go out looking for apartments in a major city, you will see many "women-only" options, probably for some of the reasons you listed. However, I don't think the arguments for sexual prejudice apply to racial prejudice.
oh_sigh 10y ago
> Would you suggest that "men" and "humans" as classes should be discriminated against as a result? That already happens. Especially with room shares, where the person renting is a female and only wants other females there(or, doesn't want men).

by prmph 10y ago

dragonwriter 10y ago

> 100% of crime is committed by humans. This is not true; 100% of crimes are committed by persons, but both natural persons (humans) and juridical persons (corporations, etc.) commit crimes, and its possible for the latter to commit a crime when none of the individual owners or agents are, as individuals, guilty of a crime. > Would you suggest that "men" and "humans" as classes should be discriminated against as a result? But, the latter kind of discrimination is the reason that the claim about humans committing 100% of crime is approximately (that is, but for crimes by juridical persons) true -- only humans commit crimes because acts are only criminal when committed by humans, so discrimination against humans is the reason for rather than a response to the condition you identify.

simonsarris 10y ago

> Would you suggest that "men" and "humans" as classes should be discriminated against as a result? Yes, if you can sell a night's stay for the same price to a houseplant as you can to a human, it would seem wisest to board the houseplant at every opportunity. > What if, statistically, there were some weird factor... I would like an AI to make all my booking picks for me, but not one that aims to maximize diversity or exclusivity, simply one that minimizes risk. If it turned out the AI found a strong correlation with ear shape and risk, or favorite color and risk, that would be just fine, as long as it is correct. I have no such AI, all I have are some mere heuristics gathered from the work of actuarial scientists (Insurers). So if a twenty-something male and a fifty-something female both request the same night, why wouldn't I choose the older female every single time? (Note that I am discriminating against my very own demographic, not that my feelings play any part in this, I'm simply attempting to minimize risk when booking, when there's an option to do so.)

kmonsen 10y ago
You choose to use the obvious case, but it would be just as true for the other one: Yes, if you can sell a night's stay for the same price to a woman as you can to a man, it would seem wisest to board the woman at every opportunity.
- gg5ever 10y ago
  Yes - it's legal to discriminate by sex. If you go out looking for apartments in a major city, you will see many "women-only" options, probably for some of the reasons you listed. However, I don't think the arguments for sexual prejudice apply to racial prejudice.

oh_sigh 10y ago

> Would you suggest that "men" and "humans" as classes should be discriminated against as a result? That already happens. Especially with room shares, where the person renting is a female and only wants other females there(or, doesn't want men).