7 ms·

I am contributing to both vote.org and voteplz.org, and probably two other get-out-the-vote non-profits. There are different approaches to this problem and I'm

by sama 10y ago

I am contributing to both vote.org and voteplz.org, and probably two other get-out-the-vote non-profits. There are different approaches to this problem and I'm not sure which will work best, but unlike many for-profit startups it's non zero-sum--we have a long, long way to go to 100% voter turnout, and all the organizations working on this share the same fundamental goal. This feels like the most important US presidential election I've ever witnessed, and I want to do whatever I can to make sure we're all involved.

jflowers45 10y ago
Appreciate that you responded & didn't dodge the question. I think what makes it feel weird is that PG went out of his way to hype the launch of voteplz without (as far as I know) ever doing anything similar for vote.org
specialist 10y ago
Money towards promoting universal, automatic voter registration would also be goodness. Moots the voter registration kabuki. Brings the USA up to international norms.
- sama 10y ago
  One of the other groups is pursuing this (and electronic voting). I think that's the right long term solution!
  - specialist 10y ago
    Disagree with you on electronic voting. I know a little bit about this one. There is no way to both protect the secret ballot and ensure a public vote count. Can't be done. And most systems (proposed, hypothetical, existing) don't do either.
    - rhallie11 10y ago
      I also disagree with electronic voting, but am a huge supporter of: - automatic registration - election days as (paid!) holidays - national no-restrictions on requesting absentee (some states require you to vote in-person unless you have a reason explaining why you literally can't)
      - specialist 10y ago
        Getting really into the weeds here... While I agree with everything you just said, I also know there's only two sure-fire ways to increase participation: #1 Peer pressure Things like vote.org will help if they close the loop by showing to your peers (bragging rights) that you've voted. #2 Competitive races Competitive races require fixes to our gerrymandering and incumbency protection. Maximally competitive districts (totally doable), public financing (will happen sooner or later), proportional voting (tough sell).
      - rhallie11 10y ago
        > #1 Peer pressure Things like vote.org will help if they close the loop by showing to your peers (bragging rights) that you've voted. Yeah, I defs remember remember reading about a group that sent out a list of everyone in your neighborhood who voted in past elections with an add-on like, "Make sure you're on this list next year", and they got a whole lot of people registered. I also heard Facebook's "I voted" status-maker increased turnout last time around
      - icebraining 10y ago
        Why do you disagree with electronic voting if you support mass absentee voting, which (AFAIK) has the same problems?
  - specialist 10y ago
    I should have asked: if its public, which of your groups is working on universal, automatic registration? I know Brennan Center, Pew Trusts, ACLU and others have been working this for a while now.
- ebfe 10y ago
  >international norms You mean like voter ID requirements?
  - specialist 10y ago
    Most democracies do not have a separate voter registration (bureaucratic) step.
    - ebfe 10y ago
      Right, I'm aware. Most democracies do not have voter registration, but do have voter ID requirements. This is the system you believe we should establish, on the basis that it's the international norm?
      - int_19h 10y ago
        Most democracies don't have a byzantine process for obtaining an ID, and proving that you're who you claim you are. So if you can make the ID issuing process in US work as well as it does in, say, Germany, sure, there's no problem with requiring an ID to vote.
      - specialist 10y ago
        I wish you weren't being down voted. You're asking reasonable, technical questions. Without getting into the politics of it all.
        enraged_camel 10y ago
        I think he's being downvoted mostly because of his tone, which comes across as a bit too snarky.
    - triplesec 10y ago
      this is not true, AFAIK. There is a process for registering and verifying. the UK requires registration, though you do not need photo ID
mindslight 10y ago
The current election feels like the most important election because the other ones are safely in history. What exactly do you see changing when we reach the vaulted 100% voter turnout? Or is it a transcendental type of thing?
- qznc 10y ago
  This election feels more polarized then the previous ones I remember. Some people disliked Mitt Romney in 2012, but they hate Trump in 2016. As an bystander (EU citizen) I find this a very entertaining election. :)
  - wry_discontent 10y ago
    A lot of conservatives _hated_ Obama in 2008. They made the same claims about him being Hitler and how he was going to destroy the country, etc. It an old routine.
    - typon 10y ago
      They feel the same if not worse about Clinton.
  - mindslight 10y ago
    Polarization is more representative of social media bubbles and the teams' resulting marketing strategies rather than an indicator of actual importance.
    - jjawssd 10y ago
      People should watch speeches from Clinton, Stein, and Trump before they draw their own conclusions. The polarization is completely unnecessary.
  - swsieber 10y ago
    Statistically, people hate the candidates more than any other election so far: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/americans-distaste-for-both-trump-and-clinton-is-record-breaking/ http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/americans-distaste-for-b...
sbuttgereit 10y ago
Do we really want those that are so half-hearted about the process that they need great efforts to cajole them to actually participating in our elections? How much time and effort do you think someone that has to be given so many "easy buttons" to become part of the process will dedicate to understanding the issues, the candidates, and the possible future outcomes? I don't think many. I think voting should be open to anyone that wants to put some reasonable effort into being part of the process. For example, maybe you should have to go to your county clerk's office in person to register. Voting should be in person. Yes, for those that are home-bound or have legitimate extenuating circumstances, they should be allowed to vote or register by mail... but if you're otherwise able and not willing to go to some reasonable effort to participate, you likely aren't going to be the model of an "informed voter" either. The only reason I think politicians and activists go down this road to making it easier to vote is because they want an electorate that doesn't think too much nor care too much. They want a docile electorate more likely to rubber stamp ideas than submit them to scrutiny. This is about undermining the functioning of democratic systems, not expanding them.... or it's just ill considered.
- drewrv 10y ago
  Selecting for voters who are willing to navigate a bureaucracy and jump through arbitrary hoops to vote does not give you "informed" voters, just voters with a lot of time on their hands. Also, who decides what circumstance is legitimate and what isn't? Why should some circumstances be accommodated but not others? Every single time people have tried to restrict who "should" vote and who "shouldn't" the rules have been abused for the purposes of bigotry. Poll taxes, literacy tests, id requirements, etc.
  - wry_discontent 10y ago
    > Selecting for voters who are willing to navigate a bureaucracy and jump through arbitrary hoops to vote does not give you "informed" voters, just voters with a lot of time on their hands. I agree with you in principle, but the vast majority of people I've met who don't vote are not just "too busy". They are usually just apathetic. They don't care about politics, they don't want to read and learn. I say we're better off without them voting.
IANAD 10y ago
> This feels like the most important US presidential election I've ever witnessed, and I want to do whatever I can to make sure we're all involved. Same for me. It's also the nuttiest US presidential election I've ever witnessed. According to HuffPost Pollster, Trump has an unfavorable rating of 58%, Clinton has an unfavorable rating of 56%. With numbers like that, neither should be in the race, imo. But, the only other two candidates either risk Clinton being elected and don't know what/where Aleppo is (Gary Johnson) or are wanted on trespassing and mischief charges and risk Trump getting elected (Jill Stein). http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/gary-johnson-aleppo-227873 http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/gary-johnson-aleppo-22... http://abc7chicago.com/news/jill-stein-appears-in-chicago-while-warrant-out-for-her-arrest/1503110/ http://abc7chicago.com/news/jill-stein-appears-in-chicago-wh...
- 8ytecoder 10y ago
  Regarding the unfavorable rating - it's here to stay. IMO, US politics is so polarized at this point - the other side is always going to be viewed as deceptive and lying (as opposed to having a different viewpoint or an incompatible solution). The only significant point here is that it's over 50%.
- boomboomsubban 10y ago
  How are either of those negatives? The entrenched parties would have had a list of approved questions to avoid such a mistake, they are all humans and can't be expected to call up every detail of any issue at will. And trespassing/mischief would probably make Stein the most law abiding candidate in generations.
  - IANAD 10y ago
    > The entrenched parties would have had a list of approved questions to avoid such a mistake Not knowing Syria is a huge problem for an incoming president. Having a warrant out is not something that I would take lightly in someone who aims to be commander-in-chief.
riffic 10y ago
>most important US presidential election Presidential politics hardly matters as much as CONGRESSIONAL elections, which happen every two years. Can we get a similar effort in place to get people out to vote for mid-terms?
sneak 10y ago
> This feels like the most important US presidential election I've ever witnessed Why do you feel that way?

by sama 10y ago

jflowers45 10y ago

Appreciate that you responded & didn't dodge the question. I think what makes it feel weird is that PG went out of his way to hype the launch of voteplz without (as far as I know) ever doing anything similar for vote.org

specialist 10y ago

Money towards promoting universal, automatic voter registration would also be goodness. Moots the voter registration kabuki. Brings the USA up to international norms.

sama 10y ago
One of the other groups is pursuing this (and electronic voting). I think that's the right long term solution!
- specialist 10y ago
  Disagree with you on electronic voting. I know a little bit about this one. There is no way to both protect the secret ballot and ensure a public vote count. Can't be done. And most systems (proposed, hypothetical, existing) don't do either.
  - rhallie11 10y ago
    I also disagree with electronic voting, but am a huge supporter of: - automatic registration - election days as (paid!) holidays - national no-restrictions on requesting absentee (some states require you to vote in-person unless you have a reason explaining why you literally can't)
    - specialist 10y ago
      Getting really into the weeds here... While I agree with everything you just said, I also know there's only two sure-fire ways to increase participation: #1 Peer pressure Things like vote.org will help if they close the loop by showing to your peers (bragging rights) that you've voted. #2 Competitive races Competitive races require fixes to our gerrymandering and incumbency protection. Maximally competitive districts (totally doable), public financing (will happen sooner or later), proportional voting (tough sell).
    - rhallie11 10y ago
      > #1 Peer pressure Things like vote.org will help if they close the loop by showing to your peers (bragging rights) that you've voted. Yeah, I defs remember remember reading about a group that sent out a list of everyone in your neighborhood who voted in past elections with an add-on like, "Make sure you're on this list next year", and they got a whole lot of people registered. I also heard Facebook's "I voted" status-maker increased turnout last time around
    - icebraining 10y ago
      Why do you disagree with electronic voting if you support mass absentee voting, which (AFAIK) has the same problems?
- specialist 10y ago
  I should have asked: if its public, which of your groups is working on universal, automatic registration? I know Brennan Center, Pew Trusts, ACLU and others have been working this for a while now.
ebfe 10y ago
>international norms You mean like voter ID requirements?
- specialist 10y ago
  Most democracies do not have a separate voter registration (bureaucratic) step.
  - ebfe 10y ago
    Right, I'm aware. Most democracies do not have voter registration, but do have voter ID requirements. This is the system you believe we should establish, on the basis that it's the international norm?
    - int_19h 10y ago
      Most democracies don't have a byzantine process for obtaining an ID, and proving that you're who you claim you are. So if you can make the ID issuing process in US work as well as it does in, say, Germany, sure, there's no problem with requiring an ID to vote.
    - specialist 10y ago
      I wish you weren't being down voted. You're asking reasonable, technical questions. Without getting into the politics of it all.
      - enraged_camel 10y ago
        I think he's being downvoted mostly because of his tone, which comes across as a bit too snarky.
  - triplesec 10y ago
    this is not true, AFAIK. There is a process for registering and verifying. the UK requires registration, though you do not need photo ID

mindslight 10y ago

The current election feels like the most important election because the other ones are safely in history. What exactly do you see changing when we reach the vaulted 100% voter turnout? Or is it a transcendental type of thing?

qznc 10y ago
This election feels more polarized then the previous ones I remember. Some people disliked Mitt Romney in 2012, but they hate Trump in 2016. As an bystander (EU citizen) I find this a very entertaining election. :)
- wry_discontent 10y ago
  A lot of conservatives _hated_ Obama in 2008. They made the same claims about him being Hitler and how he was going to destroy the country, etc. It an old routine.
  - typon 10y ago
    They feel the same if not worse about Clinton.
- mindslight 10y ago
  Polarization is more representative of social media bubbles and the teams' resulting marketing strategies rather than an indicator of actual importance.
  - jjawssd 10y ago
    People should watch speeches from Clinton, Stein, and Trump before they draw their own conclusions. The polarization is completely unnecessary.
- swsieber 10y ago
  Statistically, people hate the candidates more than any other election so far: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/americans-distaste-for-both-trump-and-clinton-is-record-breaking/ http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/americans-distaste-for-b...

sbuttgereit 10y ago

Do we really want those that are so half-hearted about the process that they need great efforts to cajole them to actually participating in our elections? How much time and effort do you think someone that has to be given so many "easy buttons" to become part of the process will dedicate to understanding the issues, the candidates, and the possible future outcomes? I don't think many. I think voting should be open to anyone that wants to put some reasonable effort into being part of the process. For example, maybe you should have to go to your county clerk's office in person to register. Voting should be in person. Yes, for those that are home-bound or have legitimate extenuating circumstances, they should be allowed to vote or register by mail... but if you're otherwise able and not willing to go to some reasonable effort to participate, you likely aren't going to be the model of an "informed voter" either. The only reason I think politicians and activists go down this road to making it easier to vote is because they want an electorate that doesn't think too much nor care too much. They want a docile electorate more likely to rubber stamp ideas than submit them to scrutiny. This is about undermining the functioning of democratic systems, not expanding them.... or it's just ill considered.

drewrv 10y ago
Selecting for voters who are willing to navigate a bureaucracy and jump through arbitrary hoops to vote does not give you "informed" voters, just voters with a lot of time on their hands. Also, who decides what circumstance is legitimate and what isn't? Why should some circumstances be accommodated but not others? Every single time people have tried to restrict who "should" vote and who "shouldn't" the rules have been abused for the purposes of bigotry. Poll taxes, literacy tests, id requirements, etc.
- wry_discontent 10y ago
  > Selecting for voters who are willing to navigate a bureaucracy and jump through arbitrary hoops to vote does not give you "informed" voters, just voters with a lot of time on their hands. I agree with you in principle, but the vast majority of people I've met who don't vote are not just "too busy". They are usually just apathetic. They don't care about politics, they don't want to read and learn. I say we're better off without them voting.

IANAD 10y ago

> This feels like the most important US presidential election I've ever witnessed, and I want to do whatever I can to make sure we're all involved. Same for me. It's also the nuttiest US presidential election I've ever witnessed. According to HuffPost Pollster, Trump has an unfavorable rating of 58%, Clinton has an unfavorable rating of 56%. With numbers like that, neither should be in the race, imo. But, the only other two candidates either risk Clinton being elected and don't know what/where Aleppo is (Gary Johnson) or are wanted on trespassing and mischief charges and risk Trump getting elected (Jill Stein). http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/gary-johnson-aleppo-227873 http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/gary-johnson-aleppo-22... http://abc7chicago.com/news/jill-stein-appears-in-chicago-while-warrant-out-for-her-arrest/1503110/ http://abc7chicago.com/news/jill-stein-appears-in-chicago-wh...

8ytecoder 10y ago
Regarding the unfavorable rating - it's here to stay. IMO, US politics is so polarized at this point - the other side is always going to be viewed as deceptive and lying (as opposed to having a different viewpoint or an incompatible solution). The only significant point here is that it's over 50%.
boomboomsubban 10y ago
How are either of those negatives? The entrenched parties would have had a list of approved questions to avoid such a mistake, they are all humans and can't be expected to call up every detail of any issue at will. And trespassing/mischief would probably make Stein the most law abiding candidate in generations.
- IANAD 10y ago
  > The entrenched parties would have had a list of approved questions to avoid such a mistake Not knowing Syria is a huge problem for an incoming president. Having a warrant out is not something that I would take lightly in someone who aims to be commander-in-chief.

riffic 10y ago

>most important US presidential election Presidential politics hardly matters as much as CONGRESSIONAL elections, which happen every two years. Can we get a similar effort in place to get people out to vote for mid-terms?

sneak 10y ago

> This feels like the most important US presidential election I've ever witnessed Why do you feel that way?