5 ms·

As an host, I'll never discriminate on the basis of religion, sex orientation, color of skin, national origin or gender identity. When it comes to disability,

As an host, I'll never discriminate on the basis of religion, sex orientation, color of skin, national origin or gender identity. When it comes to disability, I might refuse someone whose disability would cause risk in using the apartment and might have an accident because the apartment is not safe for someone who's disabled (the building is 300 years old, there's no elevator, the stair in the duplex apartment doesn't have handrails)... It's a risk if the person then has an accident... Similarly in term of age, I would not rent to couples with young children because it's too risky. So, it's discrimination but it's mostly because this is not an hotel, it's an apartment in which I live part of the year and it's not adapted for disabled people or couples with young children because I'm not in those categories. That said, as someone whose wife is asian, I fully understand the problem. It's annoying and painful when people discriminate based on race. In our case, we show both my face and wife face on our Airbnb profile photo because we prefer to have a host refuse on the basis of wife's nationality than to give money or stay at the house of a racist host. I've had a bad experience before that with a host who was nice to me when I met him and then wasn't as nice 5 minutes later once my wife arrived... The fact that he earned money from our stay galls me...

pascalmemories 10y ago
If I understand correctly, you're happy to be the one discriminating against disabled people, old people and people with children. But you're not happy if you're on the receiving end of any discrimination. Don't you see the contradiction there ? Anti-discrimination policies are about ensuring people have equal access to services and facilities (whether it's contentious toilets or hotels or whatever). You seem to indicate in your jurisdiction that renting an apartment without safety rails is OK, but in many others it's not OK and you'd be in violation of safety laws (and also discrimination laws). It doesn't matter that you live there sometime - you're renting it as a facility and should be expected to comply with safety and whatever other laws apply. And if you do it via AirBnB, you also need to comply with their rules regardless of legal requirements. And AirBnB get to change the rules when they want and you either agree or stop using them.
- saiya-jin 10y ago
  why the attack? the fact that he didn't put in enough safety in complicated apartment is the reason for you to attack him? Well maybe it technically challenging, would make the place ugly or is near impossible given the layout of the place or materials used to build it. You cannot just drill anywhere you want in buildings that are few hundred years old for example. there is a distinction between sharing an apt and going to hotel. Latter is vastly more regulated, former is a bit wild west and exactly the reason why people are using it (because with this comes usually lower price if more people will be accommodated, more homely feel with more equipment ala full kitchen etc.). Let's not try to make private apartments hotels, because then we end up with... just more fugly hotels.
  - pascalmemories 10y ago
    My comments are far from an attack; an attack would have been more than summarizing his comments in 2 lines and then pointing out there was a discrepancy. I don't know where you got the idea that I was suggesting anyone should 'just drill anywhere' from ? As an old person or a disabled person, looking on AirBnB, I can see what the apartment has and how it is laid out (provided good pictures and description are provided). Being old or disabled does not stop me being mentally competent to decide for myself whether I'm capable of climbing stairs or negotiating the apartment. It is actually a very offensive and discriminatory thing to suggest either of these personal attributes make me mentally incompetent and this is the core of what makes such discrimination offensive - and illegal - in many jurisdictions around the world. If there is a legal requirement to have safety rails on stairs (or any other regulation), saying the building is X years old is not an excuse for failure to comply. If you're worried about damage being caused in trying to fit them yourself, you hire a professional to do it instead and then it's their job to ensure the building is still sound after the installation. You're operating what is essentially a business, so costs like that are reasonable business expenses to offset against your profits and the result is you get an improved, safer, house for you and guests and essentially get the guests to pay for it, making you ahead. I don't understand why you're so upset.
    - 10y ago
orthoganol 10y ago
> a host who was nice to me when I met him and then wasn't as nice 5 minutes later once my wife arrived I don't doubt the presence of racism in our society, but this seems like an overly subjective and crude way to label someone a racist. Off the top of my head they could be threatened by the other's attractiveness (surprisingly common), they find the person awkward to speak with or annoying/ out of touch, they are shy/uncomfortable around social situations with multiple people, they could even be a minsogynst, they could have terrible social skills, or a hundred other reasons why someone might give off bad vibes to someone else. How do you differentiate so assuredly between "this person just doesn't like this person and/ or the situation" and "this person is a racist"? I've lived in countries where I felt like I got a ton of looks/ distance, and if someone was rude to me, I found myself jumping to "racism" a lot, a lot of the x-pats did. Yet when I come back home I still encounter the same kind of rudeness but suddenly it's not racism anymore, it's just people being assholes. Not sure where I'm going with this, it just does bother me that people are so quick to pull the racism card in such ambiguous, subjective situations, especially when it's against people who are younger than my grandparent's generation, who in the US at least are a lot less likely to actually be racist.
- jessaustin 10y ago
  It's fine to analyze potential racism experienced by oneself in this fashion, but it really is out of bounds to analyze potential racism experienced by other people in this way. Perhaps that isn't fair to those of us who rarely experience potential racism, but so what?
  - blackbagboys 10y ago
    Other people's perceptions are no less prone to error and misjudgment than one's own. It's not polite to challenge someone's interpretation of their own experiences, but to declare it "out of bounds" or somehow morally wrong is a cheap shaming tactic.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - 10y ago
ndarilek 10y ago
I'm blind. Would you not rent this property to me because you fear for my safety therein? Would it make a difference if I've said I've skied, biked solo, rock-climbed? If so, why should I have to do so when others don't, and are trusted to make up their own minds as to whether your property works for them? Do you feel more confident than I am in determining my own limits? Disclosure: I've been denied many opportunities because an unqualified person determined what was and was not safe/possible/healthy/OK for me to do, and find it upsetting to be denied my agency because of it. Glad to see these changes landing. If I've misinterpreted your post then I do apologize, but it looks like you're making choices and denying opportunities for capable adults, and I'm not OK with that if that's the case.
- criddell 10y ago
  Do you see any problem with home owners saying no to those that require the assistance of a service animal?
  - ndarilek 10y ago
    Yes.
    - criddell 10y ago
      Then you and I would likely have a problem. I wouldn't let a dog into my house because of family members with severe asthma and allergy issues. My medical needs take priority over yours in my house.
  - ixacto 10y ago
    No. I have seen this system abused many times. There are misbehaved pets in the store all the time now.
- nicolas_t 10y ago
  I'd actually most likely rent it to you after I've made sure that you really know what you're getting and I've phoned my insurance to make sure it's not an issue... I'm slightly biased though since my flat mate in university was legally blind and I've seen him be extremely independent. It's mostly for people who have difficulties moving that I couldn't rent it since there's a lot of stairs with no elevators, the stairs are old and not that stable and inside the house, the stairs have no handrails to support oneself and the sidewalks of the street of the apartment are extremely narrow, badly maintained with people driving very fast in that street. I love the area and the place and it has a lot of rustic charm but it is dangerous and inconvenient. I mean when I broke my leg and had it in a cast, I rented an apartment in the same city because it was to dangerous to access my own apartment. Now, outside of renting my apartment, if I were hiring, I would certainly never discriminate against anyone who is disabled or anyone else.
ProAm 10y ago
To play devils advocate your are saying some personal discrimination is okay because of what you feel are valid arguments, but other people should not be able to have their own set of rules for their discrimination?
gist 10y ago
> Similarly in term of age, I would not rent to couples with young children because it's too risky. I am not sure age matters with children at all since they don't have legal status and can't enter into contracts etc. So on that basis alone it's a non issue. Meaning it wouldn't be discrimination. In other words you can't get in trouble for refusing to hire someone who is 10 years old because legally you can't hire them anyway. Likewise if there is some other rule w/o respect to age discrimination (lodging) since they have no legal status (and the parent would be renting) it really wouldn't matter that age was the issue. Would be the same really as "I don't rent to people who wear yellow shirts".
oneloop 10y ago
You'll never discriminate on anything, except the things that are important to you and you don't like. Got it.
jomamaxx 10y ago
"Similarly in term of age, I would not rent to couples with young children because it's too risky." This is definitely discrimination, even though I don't object to it.

pascalmemories 10y ago

If I understand correctly, you're happy to be the one discriminating against disabled people, old people and people with children. But you're not happy if you're on the receiving end of any discrimination. Don't you see the contradiction there ? Anti-discrimination policies are about ensuring people have equal access to services and facilities (whether it's contentious toilets or hotels or whatever). You seem to indicate in your jurisdiction that renting an apartment without safety rails is OK, but in many others it's not OK and you'd be in violation of safety laws (and also discrimination laws). It doesn't matter that you live there sometime - you're renting it as a facility and should be expected to comply with safety and whatever other laws apply. And if you do it via AirBnB, you also need to comply with their rules regardless of legal requirements. And AirBnB get to change the rules when they want and you either agree or stop using them.

saiya-jin 10y ago
why the attack? the fact that he didn't put in enough safety in complicated apartment is the reason for you to attack him? Well maybe it technically challenging, would make the place ugly or is near impossible given the layout of the place or materials used to build it. You cannot just drill anywhere you want in buildings that are few hundred years old for example. there is a distinction between sharing an apt and going to hotel. Latter is vastly more regulated, former is a bit wild west and exactly the reason why people are using it (because with this comes usually lower price if more people will be accommodated, more homely feel with more equipment ala full kitchen etc.). Let's not try to make private apartments hotels, because then we end up with... just more fugly hotels.
- pascalmemories 10y ago
  My comments are far from an attack; an attack would have been more than summarizing his comments in 2 lines and then pointing out there was a discrepancy. I don't know where you got the idea that I was suggesting anyone should 'just drill anywhere' from ? As an old person or a disabled person, looking on AirBnB, I can see what the apartment has and how it is laid out (provided good pictures and description are provided). Being old or disabled does not stop me being mentally competent to decide for myself whether I'm capable of climbing stairs or negotiating the apartment. It is actually a very offensive and discriminatory thing to suggest either of these personal attributes make me mentally incompetent and this is the core of what makes such discrimination offensive - and illegal - in many jurisdictions around the world. If there is a legal requirement to have safety rails on stairs (or any other regulation), saying the building is X years old is not an excuse for failure to comply. If you're worried about damage being caused in trying to fit them yourself, you hire a professional to do it instead and then it's their job to ensure the building is still sound after the installation. You're operating what is essentially a business, so costs like that are reasonable business expenses to offset against your profits and the result is you get an improved, safer, house for you and guests and essentially get the guests to pay for it, making you ahead. I don't understand why you're so upset.
  - 10y ago

orthoganol 10y ago

> a host who was nice to me when I met him and then wasn't as nice 5 minutes later once my wife arrived I don't doubt the presence of racism in our society, but this seems like an overly subjective and crude way to label someone a racist. Off the top of my head they could be threatened by the other's attractiveness (surprisingly common), they find the person awkward to speak with or annoying/ out of touch, they are shy/uncomfortable around social situations with multiple people, they could even be a minsogynst, they could have terrible social skills, or a hundred other reasons why someone might give off bad vibes to someone else. How do you differentiate so assuredly between "this person just doesn't like this person and/ or the situation" and "this person is a racist"? I've lived in countries where I felt like I got a ton of looks/ distance, and if someone was rude to me, I found myself jumping to "racism" a lot, a lot of the x-pats did. Yet when I come back home I still encounter the same kind of rudeness but suddenly it's not racism anymore, it's just people being assholes. Not sure where I'm going with this, it just does bother me that people are so quick to pull the racism card in such ambiguous, subjective situations, especially when it's against people who are younger than my grandparent's generation, who in the US at least are a lot less likely to actually be racist.

jessaustin 10y ago
It's fine to analyze potential racism experienced by oneself in this fashion, but it really is out of bounds to analyze potential racism experienced by other people in this way. Perhaps that isn't fair to those of us who rarely experience potential racism, but so what?
- blackbagboys 10y ago
  Other people's perceptions are no less prone to error and misjudgment than one's own. It's not polite to challenge someone's interpretation of their own experiences, but to declare it "out of bounds" or somehow morally wrong is a cheap shaming tactic.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- 10y ago

ndarilek 10y ago

I'm blind. Would you not rent this property to me because you fear for my safety therein? Would it make a difference if I've said I've skied, biked solo, rock-climbed? If so, why should I have to do so when others don't, and are trusted to make up their own minds as to whether your property works for them? Do you feel more confident than I am in determining my own limits? Disclosure: I've been denied many opportunities because an unqualified person determined what was and was not safe/possible/healthy/OK for me to do, and find it upsetting to be denied my agency because of it. Glad to see these changes landing. If I've misinterpreted your post then I do apologize, but it looks like you're making choices and denying opportunities for capable adults, and I'm not OK with that if that's the case.

criddell 10y ago
Do you see any problem with home owners saying no to those that require the assistance of a service animal?
- ndarilek 10y ago
  Yes.
  - criddell 10y ago
    Then you and I would likely have a problem. I wouldn't let a dog into my house because of family members with severe asthma and allergy issues. My medical needs take priority over yours in my house.
- ixacto 10y ago
  No. I have seen this system abused many times. There are misbehaved pets in the store all the time now.
nicolas_t 10y ago
I'd actually most likely rent it to you after I've made sure that you really know what you're getting and I've phoned my insurance to make sure it's not an issue... I'm slightly biased though since my flat mate in university was legally blind and I've seen him be extremely independent. It's mostly for people who have difficulties moving that I couldn't rent it since there's a lot of stairs with no elevators, the stairs are old and not that stable and inside the house, the stairs have no handrails to support oneself and the sidewalks of the street of the apartment are extremely narrow, badly maintained with people driving very fast in that street. I love the area and the place and it has a lot of rustic charm but it is dangerous and inconvenient. I mean when I broke my leg and had it in a cast, I rented an apartment in the same city because it was to dangerous to access my own apartment. Now, outside of renting my apartment, if I were hiring, I would certainly never discriminate against anyone who is disabled or anyone else.

ProAm 10y ago

To play devils advocate your are saying some personal discrimination is okay because of what you feel are valid arguments, but other people should not be able to have their own set of rules for their discrimination?

gist 10y ago

> Similarly in term of age, I would not rent to couples with young children because it's too risky. I am not sure age matters with children at all since they don't have legal status and can't enter into contracts etc. So on that basis alone it's a non issue. Meaning it wouldn't be discrimination. In other words you can't get in trouble for refusing to hire someone who is 10 years old because legally you can't hire them anyway. Likewise if there is some other rule w/o respect to age discrimination (lodging) since they have no legal status (and the parent would be renting) it really wouldn't matter that age was the issue. Would be the same really as "I don't rent to people who wear yellow shirts".

oneloop 10y ago

You'll never discriminate on anything, except the things that are important to you and you don't like. Got it.

jomamaxx 10y ago

"Similarly in term of age, I would not rent to couples with young children because it's too risky." This is definitely discrimination, even though I don't object to it.