5 ms·

I can think of one way AirBNB could attempt to persuade hosts: publish data showing that there is no correlation between any of [race, religion, national origin

I can think of one way AirBNB could attempt to persuade hosts: publish data showing that there is no correlation between any of [race, religion, national origin, disability, sex, gender identity, sexual orientation, age] and the likelihood of a guest being a poor guest (ending in an insurance claim, or maybe just a very bad review). If the data shows that there is no correlation, they can prove hosts have no reason to let their prejudices get in the way of making more money hosting more people. If data does show a correlation, don't hosts have good reason to discriminate, just as insurers do (against say, age)?

vkou 10y ago
I'm sure that if AirBnB lays out an impartial, data driven argument, racists will realize the error of their ways. ... Right. Also, note that health insurer discrimination is the exception, rather then the norm (And it surprises me that it is even legal).
- weberc2 10y ago
  I don't think the point is to convert racists as much as it is to prove to non-racists that the general actuarial tables don't apply specifically to AirBnB's renters.
prmph 10y ago
The usual arguments against your point have been well argued before, but I will repeat it here, because people all too often trip up on the seeming unassailable logic of your position: Men are statistically more likely to commit violent crimes than women, and 100% of crime is committed by humans. Would you suggest that "men" and "humans" as classes should be discriminated against as a result? What if, statistically, there were some weird factor, like the shape of ears, that correlated more strongly with the quality of a guest. Would you base your hosting decisions on that? You don't think it too neat and simplistic that, with race being something that speaks to the deepest prejudices in people, "data" has been found and collected that appears to support such prejudices? Statistically, poor people might be a net drain on economy. Do you suggest we get rid of them?
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > 100% of crime is committed by humans. This is not true; 100% of crimes are committed by persons, but both natural persons (humans) and juridical persons (corporations, etc.) commit crimes, and its possible for the latter to commit a crime when none of the individual owners or agents are, as individuals, guilty of a crime. > Would you suggest that "men" and "humans" as classes should be discriminated against as a result? But, the latter kind of discrimination is the reason that the claim about humans committing 100% of crime is approximately (that is, but for crimes by juridical persons) true -- only humans commit crimes because acts are only criminal when committed by humans, so discrimination against humans is the reason for rather than a response to the condition you identify.
- simonsarris 10y ago
  > Would you suggest that "men" and "humans" as classes should be discriminated against as a result? Yes, if you can sell a night's stay for the same price to a houseplant as you can to a human, it would seem wisest to board the houseplant at every opportunity. > What if, statistically, there were some weird factor... I would like an AI to make all my booking picks for me, but not one that aims to maximize diversity or exclusivity, simply one that minimizes risk. If it turned out the AI found a strong correlation with ear shape and risk, or favorite color and risk, that would be just fine, as long as it is correct. I have no such AI, all I have are some mere heuristics gathered from the work of actuarial scientists (Insurers). So if a twenty-something male and a fifty-something female both request the same night, why wouldn't I choose the older female every single time? (Note that I am discriminating against my very own demographic, not that my feelings play any part in this, I'm simply attempting to minimize risk when booking, when there's an option to do so.)
  - kmonsen 10y ago
    You choose to use the obvious case, but it would be just as true for the other one: Yes, if you can sell a night's stay for the same price to a woman as you can to a man, it would seem wisest to board the woman at every opportunity.
MarkMc 10y ago
> If data does show a correlation, don't hosts have good reason to discriminate, just as insurers do? Well, they have an incentive to discriminate, but not necessarily a morally good reason. Regarding insurance: Being middle-aged is something we all get a chance at. Being white or female is not. If a restaurant owner can show that blacks do not tip as well as whites, is it acceptable for him to always seat blacks at the back of the restaurant?

vkou 10y ago

I'm sure that if AirBnB lays out an impartial, data driven argument, racists will realize the error of their ways. ... Right. Also, note that health insurer discrimination is the exception, rather then the norm (And it surprises me that it is even legal).

weberc2 10y ago
I don't think the point is to convert racists as much as it is to prove to non-racists that the general actuarial tables don't apply specifically to AirBnB's renters.

prmph 10y ago

The usual arguments against your point have been well argued before, but I will repeat it here, because people all too often trip up on the seeming unassailable logic of your position: Men are statistically more likely to commit violent crimes than women, and 100% of crime is committed by humans. Would you suggest that "men" and "humans" as classes should be discriminated against as a result? What if, statistically, there were some weird factor, like the shape of ears, that correlated more strongly with the quality of a guest. Would you base your hosting decisions on that? You don't think it too neat and simplistic that, with race being something that speaks to the deepest prejudices in people, "data" has been found and collected that appears to support such prejudices? Statistically, poor people might be a net drain on economy. Do you suggest we get rid of them?

dragonwriter 10y ago
> 100% of crime is committed by humans. This is not true; 100% of crimes are committed by persons, but both natural persons (humans) and juridical persons (corporations, etc.) commit crimes, and its possible for the latter to commit a crime when none of the individual owners or agents are, as individuals, guilty of a crime. > Would you suggest that "men" and "humans" as classes should be discriminated against as a result? But, the latter kind of discrimination is the reason that the claim about humans committing 100% of crime is approximately (that is, but for crimes by juridical persons) true -- only humans commit crimes because acts are only criminal when committed by humans, so discrimination against humans is the reason for rather than a response to the condition you identify.
simonsarris 10y ago
> Would you suggest that "men" and "humans" as classes should be discriminated against as a result? Yes, if you can sell a night's stay for the same price to a houseplant as you can to a human, it would seem wisest to board the houseplant at every opportunity. > What if, statistically, there were some weird factor... I would like an AI to make all my booking picks for me, but not one that aims to maximize diversity or exclusivity, simply one that minimizes risk. If it turned out the AI found a strong correlation with ear shape and risk, or favorite color and risk, that would be just fine, as long as it is correct. I have no such AI, all I have are some mere heuristics gathered from the work of actuarial scientists (Insurers). So if a twenty-something male and a fifty-something female both request the same night, why wouldn't I choose the older female every single time? (Note that I am discriminating against my very own demographic, not that my feelings play any part in this, I'm simply attempting to minimize risk when booking, when there's an option to do so.)
- kmonsen 10y ago
  You choose to use the obvious case, but it would be just as true for the other one: Yes, if you can sell a night's stay for the same price to a woman as you can to a man, it would seem wisest to board the woman at every opportunity.

MarkMc 10y ago

> If data does show a correlation, don't hosts have good reason to discriminate, just as insurers do? Well, they have an incentive to discriminate, but not necessarily a morally good reason. Regarding insurance: Being middle-aged is something we all get a chance at. Being white or female is not. If a restaurant owner can show that blacks do not tip as well as whites, is it acceptable for him to always seat blacks at the back of the restaurant?