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I am primed to believe the worst after learning that a container labeled as "100% Extra-Virgin Olive Oil. Product of Italy." might not bear even a single truth

I am primed to believe the worst after learning that a container labeled as "100% Extra-Virgin Olive Oil. Product of Italy." might not bear even a single truthful statement. The barest of investigative scrutiny reveals it as filtered and deodorized Spanish third-pressing olive oil, cut with hazelnut oil, that spent a traumatic night in Italy once. Or when I learned that the "clover honey" sold in grocery stores might actually be Chinese honey, from hives supplemented with high-fructose corn syrup, with all pollen and particulates filtered out to conceal its origins, then cut again during bottling with high-fructose corn syrup. The burden of proof is actually on the manufacturer to show that their "truffle oil" contains actual truffles. The question is whether or not I can believe their claim without proof--and I don't. If it sells at a premium above a near-equivalent commodity good, my default assumption is that the claims are marketing bullshit aimed at credulous buyers. But how important is the claim anyway? If it makes my food taste better at a fair price, I don't really care if it has any actual truffle in it. I don't even know what actual truffle tastes like--nor do I really care to learn, at their typical market prices. But I think in the U.S., there would definitely be a problem if a food label stated "natural flavor" or "truffle extract" when it was actually "artificial flavor". The name on the front of the package doesn't matter much here, except for specific exceptions. But if the back read as anything other than "olive oil, artificial flavor" the manufacturer could get slapped on the wrist so hard.

basseq 10y ago
The difference between "natural" and "artificial" flavors is academic at best. Fundamentally, they're the same chemical compounds: the difference is how those compounds are obtained... and the premium you can charge for being "natural". But natural does not mean that the named ingredient was involved at all. From an older Scientific American article: Natural coconut flavorings, for example, depend on a chemical called massoya lactone. Massoya lactone comes from the bark of the Massoya tree, which grows in Malaysia. ... This pure natural chemical is identical to the version made in an organic chemists laboratory, yet it is much more expensive than the synthetic alternative. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-is-the-difference-be-2002-07-29/ http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-is-the-differ...
- narag 10y ago
  I would really like artificial flavors to be on sale for consumers. I like yogourth not because some sad chip of fruit sinking in it, but for the proteins and calcium. A drop of some flavor would save me from the sugar spoons added to the fruit flavoured ones. "Natural" yogourth comes without any added sugar.
  - germinalphrase 10y ago
    It is also extremely easy to make (which is what I strongly recommend you do).
  - adrianN 10y ago
    You can buy them: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VMAZQL0 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VMAZQL0
  - logfromblammo 10y ago
    You can find a limited variety of artificial flavors in unsweetened Kool-Aid packets. You can probably find them for $0.10-$0.25 each at your local grocery store. The downside is that some flavors taste quite dissimilar to the fruits they purport to mimic. I use them with powdered stevia, and sometimes erythritol or xylitol, to make sugar-free gelatin desserts. Also useful for such purposes are the bottles found near the baking supplies: vanilla, almond, and mint flavors. Another cheap natural source of low-sugar flavorings can be found in the outer layer of citrus rinds. Lemon, lime, and orange zest adds a bit of [bitter] flavor that is still vaguely fruity. You can also get powdered malic acid and citric acid in bulk, which will let you make things more tart without making them taste like vinegar. While it is difficult to find some flavors/fragrances in the grocery store, some essential oils are marketed for cosmetic purposes, for DIY soapmakers or perfumers, but you have to be careful to buy them as food-grade and do your own research into potential toxicity if you ever intend to flavor foods with them.
    - narag 10y ago
      Thank you for your thourough answer. I'm in Spain, so the options are slightly different. Sacharine + cyclamate (I think it's banned from the USA) tastes much better than anything else. Cocoa (with no sugar added) and orange peel is my favourite choice for the natural additives. The artificial flavors are more or less the same. But it's very limited. There's no way to find the complex, more subtle mixes used in branded yogourths, say mango, papaya, kiwi, raisins and the more realistic fruit varieties. I believe that the lack of choices is caused by the artificial bashing propaganda. People would not buy artificial flavors yet they're consuming them anyway, just because they're conveniently fooled by a few fruit bits in the mix.
shostack 10y ago
Any sources on the honey? Also, are you aware of any good resources for vetting various brands while shopping in store? I'd love some scanner app that would just tell me if it was fake or not.
- logfromblammo 10y ago
  I think the only way to know for sure is to identify the pollen grains under a microscope. If you can't find any, the origin of the honey has been concealed with filtration, and is therefore statistically likely to contain mostly Chinese honey, based solely on examination of amounts produced and amounts exported. If you can find some pollen, but there doesn't seem to be enough, honey with an identifiable origin was probably cut with filtered honey. Honey can also be "laundered" by feeding it to another hive, then extracting from their combs. There is no scanner app. If it's in stores, its origin is suspect. Buy honey directly from your local apiary. They will be able to tell you exactly where the hives were feeding before the honey was harvested, and the honey from some locations, or from single-flower honey, has a very different taste than the store-shelf-standard clover honey.
  - shostack 10y ago
    Are there any easier tests that don't involve a microscope, particularly to sort out HFCS in the honey? Like, do they have different melting points, or any other easily testable solution?

basseq 10y ago

The difference between "natural" and "artificial" flavors is academic at best. Fundamentally, they're the same chemical compounds: the difference is how those compounds are obtained... and the premium you can charge for being "natural". But natural does not mean that the named ingredient was involved at all. From an older Scientific American article: Natural coconut flavorings, for example, depend on a chemical called massoya lactone. Massoya lactone comes from the bark of the Massoya tree, which grows in Malaysia. ... This pure natural chemical is identical to the version made in an organic chemists laboratory, yet it is much more expensive than the synthetic alternative. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-is-the-difference-be-2002-07-29/ http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-is-the-differ...

narag 10y ago
I would really like artificial flavors to be on sale for consumers. I like yogourth not because some sad chip of fruit sinking in it, but for the proteins and calcium. A drop of some flavor would save me from the sugar spoons added to the fruit flavoured ones. "Natural" yogourth comes without any added sugar.
- germinalphrase 10y ago
  It is also extremely easy to make (which is what I strongly recommend you do).
- adrianN 10y ago
  You can buy them: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VMAZQL0 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VMAZQL0
- logfromblammo 10y ago
  You can find a limited variety of artificial flavors in unsweetened Kool-Aid packets. You can probably find them for $0.10-$0.25 each at your local grocery store. The downside is that some flavors taste quite dissimilar to the fruits they purport to mimic. I use them with powdered stevia, and sometimes erythritol or xylitol, to make sugar-free gelatin desserts. Also useful for such purposes are the bottles found near the baking supplies: vanilla, almond, and mint flavors. Another cheap natural source of low-sugar flavorings can be found in the outer layer of citrus rinds. Lemon, lime, and orange zest adds a bit of [bitter] flavor that is still vaguely fruity. You can also get powdered malic acid and citric acid in bulk, which will let you make things more tart without making them taste like vinegar. While it is difficult to find some flavors/fragrances in the grocery store, some essential oils are marketed for cosmetic purposes, for DIY soapmakers or perfumers, but you have to be careful to buy them as food-grade and do your own research into potential toxicity if you ever intend to flavor foods with them.
  - narag 10y ago
    Thank you for your thourough answer. I'm in Spain, so the options are slightly different. Sacharine + cyclamate (I think it's banned from the USA) tastes much better than anything else. Cocoa (with no sugar added) and orange peel is my favourite choice for the natural additives. The artificial flavors are more or less the same. But it's very limited. There's no way to find the complex, more subtle mixes used in branded yogourths, say mango, papaya, kiwi, raisins and the more realistic fruit varieties. I believe that the lack of choices is caused by the artificial bashing propaganda. People would not buy artificial flavors yet they're consuming them anyway, just because they're conveniently fooled by a few fruit bits in the mix.

shostack 10y ago

Any sources on the honey? Also, are you aware of any good resources for vetting various brands while shopping in store? I'd love some scanner app that would just tell me if it was fake or not.

logfromblammo 10y ago
I think the only way to know for sure is to identify the pollen grains under a microscope. If you can't find any, the origin of the honey has been concealed with filtration, and is therefore statistically likely to contain mostly Chinese honey, based solely on examination of amounts produced and amounts exported. If you can find some pollen, but there doesn't seem to be enough, honey with an identifiable origin was probably cut with filtered honey. Honey can also be "laundered" by feeding it to another hive, then extracting from their combs. There is no scanner app. If it's in stores, its origin is suspect. Buy honey directly from your local apiary. They will be able to tell you exactly where the hives were feeding before the honey was harvested, and the honey from some locations, or from single-flower honey, has a very different taste than the store-shelf-standard clover honey.
- shostack 10y ago
  Are there any easier tests that don't involve a microscope, particularly to sort out HFCS in the honey? Like, do they have different melting points, or any other easily testable solution?