6 ms·

While talking about InfluxDB people should not forget about their beta release of clustering to attract more users and then making it just enterprise. And no, i

by zenlot 10y ago

While talking about InfluxDB people should not forget about their beta release of clustering to attract more users and then making it just enterprise. And no, it's not an argument that this is the only way to get paid in open source. Users should be careful while adopting InfluxDB as Influxdata does not clearly elaborate their plans on the product.

deadbunny 10y ago
Yeah, that's kinda a dick move. I was waiting for 1.0 before giving it another real go (after their decision to rewrite everything for 0.9). Looks like I'll be checking out something else now, maybe Prometheus[1] or DalmatinerDB[2] will fit the bill. 1. https://prometheus.io/ https://prometheus.io/ 2. https://dalmatiner.io/ https://dalmatiner.io/
- pauldix 10y ago
  It's worth noting that Prometheus isn't distributed either. So OSS InfluxDB or that are the same in terms of distributed capabilities.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - alexandre_m 10y ago
    Prometheus can be scaled with sharding and there are different solutions coming out to address this, like a proxy layer for queries. See the PromCon 2016 videos for latest news on this.
    - caniszczyk 10y ago
      The video is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLoz-W_CUquUlCq-Q0hy53TolAhaED9vm&v=likpVWB5Lvo https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLoz-W_CUquUlCq-Q0hy53Tol...
  - chrissnell 10y ago
    We're looking into Cyanite as an alternative. It speaks the various Graphite protocols and feeds data into Cassandra, which takes care of the HA concerns. I haven't built it yet but I'm fairly certain we can run it in Kubernetes to make the entire stack HA. http://cyanite.io http://cyanite.io
    - rkatan 10y ago
      We dropped InfluxDB after they introduced their enterprise version. Currently, we are running several nodes of Riemann/Cyanite/Cassandra. It works very well, integration is pretty straight forward.
      - erichocean 10y ago
        That stack would perform even better if you swapped ScyllaDB for Cassandra.
        alexandre_m 10y ago
        Do you have production experience with ScyllaDB? I wanted to use this for a while. Can we consider it 100% compatible and can be used as a drop-in replacement?
        erichocean 10y ago
        I've not yet used in in production, but I have kicked the tires enough to know that a) it's (much) faster, and b) I'm planning a production deployment this fall. For the most part it's compatible with Cassandra out-of-the-box, i.e. many well-known frameworks that run on top of Cassandra "just work". The main thing it's missing is support for Lightweight Transactions (scheduled for the 2.0 release). The dev team behind ScyllaDB is rock solid, very competent.
  - user5994461 10y ago
    And it's worth noting that dalmatiner magic relies on ZFS + riak. The ZFS part being problematic to run on linux. There is currently no open source monitoring solutions that support more than a single node. If you have serious infrastructure, you gotta move to the paid SaaS monitoring solutions which are ALL awesome.: https://www.datadoghq.com/ https://www.datadoghq.com/ and https://signalfx.com/ https://signalfx.com/ Note: I am not affiliated with any of these services. I just have a very strong interest in nagios/icinga/riemann/graphite/grafana dying since my painful experience of setting up and maintaining them.
  - jrv 10y ago
    While Prometheus's built-in local storage is not distributed, we are in the process of implementing generic interfaces to allow Prometheus to talk to decoupled distributed, horizontally scalable, durable, remote storage (or even other non-storage systems like queues etc.). There will be several implementations sitting behind this interface in the end (see already Vulcan from DO and Frankenstein from Weaveworks, both experimental right now), depending on what you'd rather run and what fits your use case best. Most importantly, Prometheus will never decide to exclude a feature for commercial reasons. As it's a 100% open-source and independent project not controlled by any single company, we don't have those kinds of incentives. We just want to build the best monitoring system. Note that we still say "no" to a lot of features, but that's only for technical reasons, to avoid bloat, or to keep the project maintainable.
- sileht 10y ago
  You also have http://gnocchi.xyz http://gnocchi.xyz
vegabook 10y ago
This is becoming problematic across the open source DB world. Witness the graph capabilities of Datastax Enterprise on top of Cassandra, and Riak TS also took quite a while to open source the "TS" version, hoping I guess to monetize without having to open source. This makes me worried about adopting in case I later get gotcha'd. I am really looking forward to a truly open source time series database. It's not that I don't mind upgrading to enterprise, or paying for services, but the prices end up being so "oracle" like. For example Datastax wants something like 10k per node per year! I mean a credible Cassandra cluster is going to be 5 node bare minimum which really is a lot for a bootstrapping startup. One of the big problems in the TS world is that KX (KDB) charges an enormous fortune and all the wannabe competitors are salivating at grabbing some of that money.
- jnordwick 10y ago
  Why does the open sources world struggle with timeseries / tick databases so much? I'm a very big KDB fan, but I thought there would be some competition from the open source people at some point, but it seems like every attempt fails. KDB does so well because of its simplicity. Can the OS people not do simple (this is a possible argument), or is it that, as you point out, whenever something is about to be released into the OS sphere the lure of money prevents a full release. Or are they too distracted with the Web and build too many solutions tailored to it. I'm just amazed that a good TSDB hasn't come from the OS crowd yet.
  - dismantlethesun 10y ago
    It seems to me that specialised tools will usually be released as a product, because they're only for a specialised niche. Relational databases are treated like they can store any kind of data, and for small data sets, it really doesn't matter if your data-model does not fit the relational type. Once you have a larger data set, you're no longer a general purpose user.
  - jimmcslim 10y ago
    KX seems to have a story that is very convincing specifically for financial markets applications. All the other OSS TSDBs seem to have very good stories for storing server statistics and web clicks, or IoT data; but there are few stories, case studies, best practices for using these in financial applications?
sberder 10y ago
Interesting to notice that you're the only to comment that doesn't have an answer from pauldix

by zenlot 10y ago

deadbunny 10y ago

Yeah, that's kinda a dick move. I was waiting for 1.0 before giving it another real go (after their decision to rewrite everything for 0.9). Looks like I'll be checking out something else now, maybe Prometheus[1] or DalmatinerDB[2] will fit the bill. 1. https://prometheus.io/ https://prometheus.io/ 2. https://dalmatiner.io/ https://dalmatiner.io/

pauldix 10y ago
It's worth noting that Prometheus isn't distributed either. So OSS InfluxDB or that are the same in terms of distributed capabilities.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- alexandre_m 10y ago
  Prometheus can be scaled with sharding and there are different solutions coming out to address this, like a proxy layer for queries. See the PromCon 2016 videos for latest news on this.
  - caniszczyk 10y ago
    The video is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLoz-W_CUquUlCq-Q0hy53TolAhaED9vm&v=likpVWB5Lvo https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLoz-W_CUquUlCq-Q0hy53Tol...
- chrissnell 10y ago
  We're looking into Cyanite as an alternative. It speaks the various Graphite protocols and feeds data into Cassandra, which takes care of the HA concerns. I haven't built it yet but I'm fairly certain we can run it in Kubernetes to make the entire stack HA. http://cyanite.io http://cyanite.io
  - rkatan 10y ago
    We dropped InfluxDB after they introduced their enterprise version. Currently, we are running several nodes of Riemann/Cyanite/Cassandra. It works very well, integration is pretty straight forward.
    - erichocean 10y ago
      That stack would perform even better if you swapped ScyllaDB for Cassandra.
      - alexandre_m 10y ago
        Do you have production experience with ScyllaDB? I wanted to use this for a while. Can we consider it 100% compatible and can be used as a drop-in replacement?
        erichocean 10y ago
        I've not yet used in in production, but I have kicked the tires enough to know that a) it's (much) faster, and b) I'm planning a production deployment this fall. For the most part it's compatible with Cassandra out-of-the-box, i.e. many well-known frameworks that run on top of Cassandra "just work". The main thing it's missing is support for Lightweight Transactions (scheduled for the 2.0 release). The dev team behind ScyllaDB is rock solid, very competent.
- user5994461 10y ago
  And it's worth noting that dalmatiner magic relies on ZFS + riak. The ZFS part being problematic to run on linux. There is currently no open source monitoring solutions that support more than a single node. If you have serious infrastructure, you gotta move to the paid SaaS monitoring solutions which are ALL awesome.: https://www.datadoghq.com/ https://www.datadoghq.com/ and https://signalfx.com/ https://signalfx.com/ Note: I am not affiliated with any of these services. I just have a very strong interest in nagios/icinga/riemann/graphite/grafana dying since my painful experience of setting up and maintaining them.
- jrv 10y ago
  While Prometheus's built-in local storage is not distributed, we are in the process of implementing generic interfaces to allow Prometheus to talk to decoupled distributed, horizontally scalable, durable, remote storage (or even other non-storage systems like queues etc.). There will be several implementations sitting behind this interface in the end (see already Vulcan from DO and Frankenstein from Weaveworks, both experimental right now), depending on what you'd rather run and what fits your use case best. Most importantly, Prometheus will never decide to exclude a feature for commercial reasons. As it's a 100% open-source and independent project not controlled by any single company, we don't have those kinds of incentives. We just want to build the best monitoring system. Note that we still say "no" to a lot of features, but that's only for technical reasons, to avoid bloat, or to keep the project maintainable.
sileht 10y ago
You also have http://gnocchi.xyz http://gnocchi.xyz

vegabook 10y ago

This is becoming problematic across the open source DB world. Witness the graph capabilities of Datastax Enterprise on top of Cassandra, and Riak TS also took quite a while to open source the "TS" version, hoping I guess to monetize without having to open source. This makes me worried about adopting in case I later get gotcha'd. I am really looking forward to a truly open source time series database. It's not that I don't mind upgrading to enterprise, or paying for services, but the prices end up being so "oracle" like. For example Datastax wants something like 10k per node per year! I mean a credible Cassandra cluster is going to be 5 node bare minimum which really is a lot for a bootstrapping startup. One of the big problems in the TS world is that KX (KDB) charges an enormous fortune and all the wannabe competitors are salivating at grabbing some of that money.

jnordwick 10y ago
Why does the open sources world struggle with timeseries / tick databases so much? I'm a very big KDB fan, but I thought there would be some competition from the open source people at some point, but it seems like every attempt fails. KDB does so well because of its simplicity. Can the OS people not do simple (this is a possible argument), or is it that, as you point out, whenever something is about to be released into the OS sphere the lure of money prevents a full release. Or are they too distracted with the Web and build too many solutions tailored to it. I'm just amazed that a good TSDB hasn't come from the OS crowd yet.
- dismantlethesun 10y ago
  It seems to me that specialised tools will usually be released as a product, because they're only for a specialised niche. Relational databases are treated like they can store any kind of data, and for small data sets, it really doesn't matter if your data-model does not fit the relational type. Once you have a larger data set, you're no longer a general purpose user.
- jimmcslim 10y ago
  KX seems to have a story that is very convincing specifically for financial markets applications. All the other OSS TSDBs seem to have very good stories for storing server statistics and web clicks, or IoT data; but there are few stories, case studies, best practices for using these in financial applications?

sberder 10y ago

Interesting to notice that you're the only to comment that doesn't have an answer from pauldix