3 ms·

> very public businesses One might argue that posting pictures of the interior of a residence, advertising it for rent by the night, and posting a price for su

by runako 10y ago

> very public businesses One might argue that posting pictures of the interior of a residence, advertising it for rent by the night, and posting a price for such privilege is what makes a hotel a "very public business." (It's also why regulations apply to hotels.) One might also wonder that if these properties make a hotel or B&B a public business, what's different about AirBnB rentals? Sure enough, back in 1964 the US passed a law that defines (many/most) AirBnB rentals as places of "public accommodation": "any inn, hotel, motel, or other establishment which provides lodging to transient guests, other than an establishment located within a building which contains not more than five rooms for rent or hire and which is actually occupied by the proprietor of such establishment as his residence. " If the lessor isn't living there, it's a public lodging. (Also, it's not the lessor's "home" by virtue of the lessor not living there.)

Spooky23 10y ago
AirBNB has already established that they consider themselves very "special". Most other activities happening in your home, including renting out a room to a housemate, are not subject to discrimination laws. If you don't want a particular type of person in your home, you should have that right, whether that's because you have a safety or other concern, or because you are a racist asshole. If AirBNB wants to pretend it's a public accommodation now because discrimination affects its brand, tough. Maybe they should exert full control by building hotels in commercial districts.
- dajohnson89 10y ago
  Agreed completely. This is why shared home adverts are exempt from FHA regulations.
  - mikestew 10y ago
    This is not true. Rather than dig through the FHA for you, Craigslist's interpretation is easier to reference: https://www.craigslist.org/about/FHA https://www.craigslist.org/about/FHA
    - Spooky23 10y ago
      Sorry, but you are wrong. There are exemptions that are relevant in a housing situation. Here are some: 1. owner-occupied buildings with no more than four units (which is commonly known as the Mrs. Murphy exemption) 2. single family housing sold or rented without the use of a broker if the private individual owner does not own more than three such single family homes at one time 3. housing operated by organizations and private clubs that limit occupancy to members
    - dajohnson89 10y ago
      Rather than dig through the link you just cited, I'll quote the relevant bit: Under federal Fair Housing law, the prohibition on discriminatory advertisements applies to all situations except the following: Shared Housing Exemption -- If you are advertising a shared housing unit, in which tenants will be sharing a bathroom, kitchen, or other common area, you may express a preference based upon sex only. Private Club and Religious Exemptions -- A religious community or private club whose membership is not restricted based upon race, color, or national origin may restrict tenancy only to its members in a property that it owns, and may advertise to that effect. Housing for Older Persons Exemption -- As discussed below, certain complexes for elderly persons are exempt from prohibitions on familial status discrimination, including the prohibitions on discriminatory advertising.
- bigiain 10y ago
  "Considering yourself special" like Airbnb or Uber - doesn't actually make you special. Renting out a room to another housemate is a very different thing to listing a room for a nightly rate as a commercial transaction. Whether that automatically means you should be governed by the same laws as a hotel is unclear, but asking whether it might be appropriate is a really important thing to do. The rules society created for hotels weren't just randomly invented rules - we wrote those laws for what we considered very good reasons to prevent certain kinds of discrimination that was actually happening and the we decided was wrong. I think there's a _very_ high chance that Airbnb hosts probably should be held to those same rules or something very similar but less directly aimed at hotels.
  - Spooky23 10y ago
    > I think there's a _very_ high chance that Airbnb hosts probably should be held to those same rules or something very similar but less directly aimed at hotels. I agree. Hosts should do things like not operate in areas where zoning or other ordinances prohibit or require regulatory compliance for this type of activity. If hosts were operating as an actual lodging establishment, the existing legal framework would provide a solution to discrimination issues. If Marriott tried to put a hotel in the middle of my neighborhood, which is an 2-4 family residential zone, that effort would fail. If you tried to open a conventional B&B, (there was one that operated about 6 blocks away for many years) you would need to meet certain safety standards like having appropriate fire egress (ie. fire escapes, alarms, possibly sprinklers), have appropriate parking, allow neighbors to react and provide perspective, etc. In the case of that B&B that was in my neighborhood, they had to install fire escapes, and the neighbors requested that a fence be installed to prevent guests from using their lawn as a pathway.
bigiain 10y ago
"located within a building which contains not more than five rooms for rent or hire" I wonder if there's any legal precedents about whether a "single building" like an apartment block, with more than 5 different apartments Airbnb-ing rooms - suddenly and out of the control of any individual tenant - becomes a "place of public accommodation"?

by runako 10y ago

Spooky23 10y ago

AirBNB has already established that they consider themselves very "special". Most other activities happening in your home, including renting out a room to a housemate, are not subject to discrimination laws. If you don't want a particular type of person in your home, you should have that right, whether that's because you have a safety or other concern, or because you are a racist asshole. If AirBNB wants to pretend it's a public accommodation now because discrimination affects its brand, tough. Maybe they should exert full control by building hotels in commercial districts.

dajohnson89 10y ago
Agreed completely. This is why shared home adverts are exempt from FHA regulations.
- mikestew 10y ago
  This is not true. Rather than dig through the FHA for you, Craigslist's interpretation is easier to reference: https://www.craigslist.org/about/FHA https://www.craigslist.org/about/FHA
  - Spooky23 10y ago
    Sorry, but you are wrong. There are exemptions that are relevant in a housing situation. Here are some: 1. owner-occupied buildings with no more than four units (which is commonly known as the Mrs. Murphy exemption) 2. single family housing sold or rented without the use of a broker if the private individual owner does not own more than three such single family homes at one time 3. housing operated by organizations and private clubs that limit occupancy to members
  - dajohnson89 10y ago
    Rather than dig through the link you just cited, I'll quote the relevant bit: Under federal Fair Housing law, the prohibition on discriminatory advertisements applies to all situations except the following: Shared Housing Exemption -- If you are advertising a shared housing unit, in which tenants will be sharing a bathroom, kitchen, or other common area, you may express a preference based upon sex only. Private Club and Religious Exemptions -- A religious community or private club whose membership is not restricted based upon race, color, or national origin may restrict tenancy only to its members in a property that it owns, and may advertise to that effect. Housing for Older Persons Exemption -- As discussed below, certain complexes for elderly persons are exempt from prohibitions on familial status discrimination, including the prohibitions on discriminatory advertising.
bigiain 10y ago
"Considering yourself special" like Airbnb or Uber - doesn't actually make you special. Renting out a room to another housemate is a very different thing to listing a room for a nightly rate as a commercial transaction. Whether that automatically means you should be governed by the same laws as a hotel is unclear, but asking whether it might be appropriate is a really important thing to do. The rules society created for hotels weren't just randomly invented rules - we wrote those laws for what we considered very good reasons to prevent certain kinds of discrimination that was actually happening and the we decided was wrong. I think there's a _very_ high chance that Airbnb hosts probably should be held to those same rules or something very similar but less directly aimed at hotels.
- Spooky23 10y ago
  > I think there's a _very_ high chance that Airbnb hosts probably should be held to those same rules or something very similar but less directly aimed at hotels. I agree. Hosts should do things like not operate in areas where zoning or other ordinances prohibit or require regulatory compliance for this type of activity. If hosts were operating as an actual lodging establishment, the existing legal framework would provide a solution to discrimination issues. If Marriott tried to put a hotel in the middle of my neighborhood, which is an 2-4 family residential zone, that effort would fail. If you tried to open a conventional B&B, (there was one that operated about 6 blocks away for many years) you would need to meet certain safety standards like having appropriate fire egress (ie. fire escapes, alarms, possibly sprinklers), have appropriate parking, allow neighbors to react and provide perspective, etc. In the case of that B&B that was in my neighborhood, they had to install fire escapes, and the neighbors requested that a fence be installed to prevent guests from using their lawn as a pathway.

bigiain 10y ago

"located within a building which contains not more than five rooms for rent or hire" I wonder if there's any legal precedents about whether a "single building" like an apartment block, with more than 5 different apartments Airbnb-ing rooms - suddenly and out of the control of any individual tenant - becomes a "place of public accommodation"?