4 ms·

"Blame technology and capitalism"? Are you advocating that a higher minimum wage would fix this? How exactly would pricing labor above it's actual value cause

"Blame technology and capitalism"? Are you advocating that a higher minimum wage would fix this? How exactly would pricing labor above it's actual value cause MORE of it?

dpritchett 10y ago
If these manufactured products can't be brought to market without the button pushers, the value of the button pushing is almost certainly higher than minimum wage.
- r_smart 10y ago
  In which case the minimum wage is unnecessary. I had one of these button pushing jobs (well it was more complicated than that, but still not demanding), and was paid well above minimum wage.
  - djschnei 10y ago
    Exactly where I was going to go. Economies are about allocation of finite resources (labor being one of those). If a company is so poorly ran that it can't determine the correct price it's willing to pay for labor through cost-benefit analysis, I'd rather it not exist. Politically, we have a thing for making it harder for bad companies to fail.
    - r_smart 10y ago
      Agreed! There are bad businesses making bad decisions all the time. Just waiting for someone to come eat their lunch. But we sort of shelter them from those consequences. My only disagreement with you is that I'm happy for a bad business to exist as long as it can manage it. I just don't think we should save them from being destroyed by their dysfunction.
      - djschnei 10y ago
        I guess I just mean I don't think we (government) should keep bad business afloat. If they can manage on their own, who am I to say it's bad ;D
    - John23832 10y ago
      I agree, bad companies should fail. But we discourage their failure because when they do, people are out on the street. And good companies don't spring up as often as we would like.
TeMPOraL 10y ago
Employees' loyalty is also a value they provide - as proven by companies complaining about lack of it. Apparently this loyalty is not priced into the paychecks.
Bartweiss 10y ago
I don't think he's saying it would. I think he's saying that a hiring-employment gap means wages should rise. That brings in more employees, while pricing out some marginal job postings. What we have right now is moderate unemployment, static wages, and an industry insisting they can't find employees. If we accept the article's premise that it's not about irreducible skill shortages (i.e. skills are available, or on-job training is an option) then something is badly wrong with that gap. There's a known pattern where an industry yells about how they can't find employees until some external force solves the problem for them: usually rising unemployment or government-funded training initiatives and subsidies. This is especially rewarding if people get educated/trained into your industry specifically, and therefore can't easily change careers and get value from their labor. Basically you keep wages low and beat your breast until someone hands you a captive labor force. So one possible explanation for this 'gap' is that employers are keeping wages sticky in the hope that someone else will come and save them from raising wages.

"Blame technology and capitalism"? Are you advocating that a higher minimum wage would fix this? How exactly would pricing labor above it's actual value cause MORE of it?

dpritchett 10y ago

If these manufactured products can't be brought to market without the button pushers, the value of the button pushing is almost certainly higher than minimum wage.

r_smart 10y ago
In which case the minimum wage is unnecessary. I had one of these button pushing jobs (well it was more complicated than that, but still not demanding), and was paid well above minimum wage.
- djschnei 10y ago
  Exactly where I was going to go. Economies are about allocation of finite resources (labor being one of those). If a company is so poorly ran that it can't determine the correct price it's willing to pay for labor through cost-benefit analysis, I'd rather it not exist. Politically, we have a thing for making it harder for bad companies to fail.
  - r_smart 10y ago
    Agreed! There are bad businesses making bad decisions all the time. Just waiting for someone to come eat their lunch. But we sort of shelter them from those consequences. My only disagreement with you is that I'm happy for a bad business to exist as long as it can manage it. I just don't think we should save them from being destroyed by their dysfunction.
    - djschnei 10y ago
      I guess I just mean I don't think we (government) should keep bad business afloat. If they can manage on their own, who am I to say it's bad ;D
  - John23832 10y ago
    I agree, bad companies should fail. But we discourage their failure because when they do, people are out on the street. And good companies don't spring up as often as we would like.

TeMPOraL 10y ago

Employees' loyalty is also a value they provide - as proven by companies complaining about lack of it. Apparently this loyalty is not priced into the paychecks.

Bartweiss 10y ago

I don't think he's saying it would. I think he's saying that a hiring-employment gap means wages should rise. That brings in more employees, while pricing out some marginal job postings. What we have right now is moderate unemployment, static wages, and an industry insisting they can't find employees. If we accept the article's premise that it's not about irreducible skill shortages (i.e. skills are available, or on-job training is an option) then something is badly wrong with that gap. There's a known pattern where an industry yells about how they can't find employees until some external force solves the problem for them: usually rising unemployment or government-funded training initiatives and subsidies. This is especially rewarding if people get educated/trained into your industry specifically, and therefore can't easily change careers and get value from their labor. Basically you keep wages low and beat your breast until someone hands you a captive labor force. So one possible explanation for this 'gap' is that employers are keeping wages sticky in the hope that someone else will come and save them from raising wages.