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Legalizing drugs is one of the most pressing policies that our country needs to adopt, primarily because of what it'll do to dealers and the black market. Curr

Legalizing drugs is one of the most pressing policies that our country needs to adopt, primarily because of what it'll do to dealers and the black market. Currently the we're waging an expensive, unwinnable war against gangs and cartels, who are powerful only because of the black market. Once we start treating drugs as a medical/social issue instead of a criminal one, prices and crime will drastically fall.

tptacek 17y ago
Or it won't, because while weed is a lucrative line of business for the Mexi cartels, it isn't the only one, and there is zero chance we're going to legalize heroin.
- yan 17y ago
  Sure, but you can't compare the size of weed and heroin markets..
  - tptacek 17y ago
    Sure you can. The markets for narcotics are bigger, in dollar terms.
  - wheels 17y ago
    The cocaine market is larger than both of them (in dollars) and I believe the dominant component of the current cartel operations. Legalizing marijuana will likely have a negligible effect on the Mexican drug cartels.
    - qeorge 17y ago
      Source? WSJ disagrees: "Marijuana accounts for anywhere between 50% to 65% of Mexican cartel revenues, say Mexican and U.S. officials." http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704254604574614230731506644.html http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870425460457461...
- rmorrison 17y ago
  there is zero chance we're going to legalize heroin I agree, although it's necessary that we legalize them all. If we just legalize marijuana and not cocaine or heroin, we'll be opening an even bigger problem with the cartels, who would then have to push harder drugs on school children in order to make the same money that they're currently making from the marijuana black market. The point is that drugs are a horrible reality, but legalizing them is by far the lesser of two evils. We could take the money we're currently wasting on the war on drugs and put it towards programs to prevent and help addiction.
  - tptacek 17y ago
    We can talk about this all day, but even if I agreed with you, it's completely irrelevant. The policy issue in this article, and in 2010, is the legalization of marijuana. If the benefits your comment suggests aren't going to be realized with the legalization of marijuana, then we aren't getting them. In not one of the top 40 economies of the world, including the Netherlands, have narcotics been legalized.
    - rmorrison 17y ago
      In not one of the top 40 economies of the world, including the Netherlands, have narcotics been legalized. Not true. Portugal, "in 2001 became the first European country to officially abolish all criminal penalties for personal possession of drugs, including marijuana, cocaine, heroin and methamphetamine." http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.ht...
      - tptacek 17y ago
        You are arguing entirely for the sake of arguing, because Portugal didn't legalize cocaine, heroin, and meth; it legalized personal possession. You will still go to prison if you open a heroin store in Lisbon.
      - bitwize 17y ago
        Man, I bet Portugal is growing a KILLER party scene right now.
- ZeroGravitas 17y ago
  You can offer free heroin (or methadone) to addicts though, which is relatively common I believe and has a similar effect.
  - IgorPartola 17y ago
    Already tried in UK. Didn't work, just more addicts.
    - rms 17y ago
      Link please?
    - ZeroGravitas 17y ago
      The primary point wasn't really to reduce the number of addicts, but to manage their addiction and prevent them having to become muggers, hookers or burglars to feed their habit, dying from badly adulterated drug supplies and contracting diseases from bad practices. And, relevant to this article and thread, putting the money earned from these illegal activities straight into the black market for drugs. Despite the horror stories and wild hysteria people can function and hold down jobs while dealing with heroin addiction just like alcoholics can. But still, I've never heard of methadone programs increasing the number of addicts (unless you count the ones that don't die as a result of the intervention). What's the causal link and how do you separate out addicts that would have become addicts anyway? Because if you didn't already have an addiction problem you wouldn't realy need the methadone program in the first place. So some actual science would need to be done to get a clear answer.
jseifer 17y ago
My question is what happens to people who have already been jailed for possession or possession with intent to distribute and the like? Do they just get set free? Would there be lawsuits if so? It's a tough situation.
- timwiseman 17y ago
  IANAL, but unless the hypothetical law legalizing these drugs contains clauses detailed what should happen to them, nothing will change for them. After all, even if it is decriminalized, what they did was a crime at the time they did it and they have already been sentenced. Without legislation specifically changing that, those sentences were correct at the time and would simply stand as is.

tptacek 17y ago

Or it won't, because while weed is a lucrative line of business for the Mexi cartels, it isn't the only one, and there is zero chance we're going to legalize heroin.

yan 17y ago
Sure, but you can't compare the size of weed and heroin markets..
- tptacek 17y ago
  Sure you can. The markets for narcotics are bigger, in dollar terms.
- wheels 17y ago
  The cocaine market is larger than both of them (in dollars) and I believe the dominant component of the current cartel operations. Legalizing marijuana will likely have a negligible effect on the Mexican drug cartels.
  - qeorge 17y ago
    Source? WSJ disagrees: "Marijuana accounts for anywhere between 50% to 65% of Mexican cartel revenues, say Mexican and U.S. officials." http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704254604574614230731506644.html http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870425460457461...
rmorrison 17y ago
there is zero chance we're going to legalize heroin I agree, although it's necessary that we legalize them all. If we just legalize marijuana and not cocaine or heroin, we'll be opening an even bigger problem with the cartels, who would then have to push harder drugs on school children in order to make the same money that they're currently making from the marijuana black market. The point is that drugs are a horrible reality, but legalizing them is by far the lesser of two evils. We could take the money we're currently wasting on the war on drugs and put it towards programs to prevent and help addiction.
- tptacek 17y ago
  We can talk about this all day, but even if I agreed with you, it's completely irrelevant. The policy issue in this article, and in 2010, is the legalization of marijuana. If the benefits your comment suggests aren't going to be realized with the legalization of marijuana, then we aren't getting them. In not one of the top 40 economies of the world, including the Netherlands, have narcotics been legalized.
  - rmorrison 17y ago
    In not one of the top 40 economies of the world, including the Netherlands, have narcotics been legalized. Not true. Portugal, "in 2001 became the first European country to officially abolish all criminal penalties for personal possession of drugs, including marijuana, cocaine, heroin and methamphetamine." http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.ht...
    - tptacek 17y ago
      You are arguing entirely for the sake of arguing, because Portugal didn't legalize cocaine, heroin, and meth; it legalized personal possession. You will still go to prison if you open a heroin store in Lisbon.
    - bitwize 17y ago
      Man, I bet Portugal is growing a KILLER party scene right now.
ZeroGravitas 17y ago
You can offer free heroin (or methadone) to addicts though, which is relatively common I believe and has a similar effect.
- IgorPartola 17y ago
  Already tried in UK. Didn't work, just more addicts.
  - rms 17y ago
    Link please?
  - ZeroGravitas 17y ago
    The primary point wasn't really to reduce the number of addicts, but to manage their addiction and prevent them having to become muggers, hookers or burglars to feed their habit, dying from badly adulterated drug supplies and contracting diseases from bad practices. And, relevant to this article and thread, putting the money earned from these illegal activities straight into the black market for drugs. Despite the horror stories and wild hysteria people can function and hold down jobs while dealing with heroin addiction just like alcoholics can. But still, I've never heard of methadone programs increasing the number of addicts (unless you count the ones that don't die as a result of the intervention). What's the causal link and how do you separate out addicts that would have become addicts anyway? Because if you didn't already have an addiction problem you wouldn't realy need the methadone program in the first place. So some actual science would need to be done to get a clear answer.

jseifer 17y ago

My question is what happens to people who have already been jailed for possession or possession with intent to distribute and the like? Do they just get set free? Would there be lawsuits if so? It's a tough situation.

timwiseman 17y ago
IANAL, but unless the hypothetical law legalizing these drugs contains clauses detailed what should happen to them, nothing will change for them. After all, even if it is decriminalized, what they did was a crime at the time they did it and they have already been sentenced. Without legislation specifically changing that, those sentences were correct at the time and would simply stand as is.