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Wikileaks' actions this year have done nothing but prove to me that Wikileaks is just another arm of the alt-right. When you add in Julian Assange's antisemiti

by amyjess 10y ago

Wikileaks' actions this year have done nothing but prove to me that Wikileaks is just another arm of the alt-right. When you add in Julian Assange's antisemitism and lack of respect for women, it all makes sense.

somenomadicguy 10y ago
There might be a much simpler reason for all of this. Being stuck in the embassy for years has severely taxed his emotional stability, encouraging narcissism, paranoia, and victimhood. At the very least, his journalism is sloppy, irresponsible, and ever-decreasing in integrity.
- amyjess 10y ago
  Both his sexual assaults and his antisemitism predate him running away to the embassy. He ran away to the embassy in 2012 because he refused to take responsibility for his sexual assaults. In 2010 he hired Israel Shamir, an extremely outspoken antisemitic blogger, to help run Wikileaks, and a number of photographs show that they had been close friends for some time before Assange hired him. When he was confronted about this by Private Eye in 2011, he began spouting conspiracy theories about how the Jews were out to get him. Assange is alt-right and has always been.
  - somenomadicguy 10y ago
    Assange is absolutely a criminal for breaking the terms of his bail. The sexual assault charges, however, are unproven, and he really deserves his day in court, whether he is guilty or innocent. I hadn't heard the anti-semite bit before, however.
  - eggy 10y ago
    Let's separate Julian Assange and content of the leaks please. Ad hominem attacks are only meant to divert people from the content of the emails. Take them for what they are, not who rendered them to the public.
    - amyjess 10y ago
      The content of his leaks is irrelevant. What matters is the intent behind releasing them. Assange being alt-right and the fact that he is going out of his way to leak material that improves the chances of the standard-bearer of the alt-right, Donald Trump, becoming head of state of the most powerful country on Earth are absolutely 100% linked together, and those links should be investigated. Some information should not be public for a reason.
      - jshevek 10y ago
        I would say the exact opposite. Politically motivated speculation about someone's motives are irrelevant, it is the content of the leaks that matter.
        somenomadicguy 10y ago
        OK then. The AKP leak exposed nothing, but rather added to an incredibly stressful and precarious situation in Türkiye. It carelessly aided in doxing most women in Türkiye. It helped spread malware. It was a good opportunity to co-opt the press around the coup.
        CWuestefeld 10y ago
        The AKP leak exposed nothing You're assuming that the goal is to expose something - that is, you're starting your argument with the idea that he's got some political agenda to achieve. But he's stated that his goal is to weaken the powerful by making it so that they can't trust anyone to keep their secrets. In that context, any uncovering of a leader's secrets is work toward his goal. You can argue that the costs of what he's doing exceed the benefits, but I think your claim doesn't support the argument you're trying to apply it to.
      - eggy 10y ago
        Who decides what information should be public? The alt-right or the alt-left?
grandalf 10y ago
> lack of respect for women Is there any evidence that he lacks respect for women? I have not yet seen any. He was accused of something which in Sweden is called "rape" but in the US would be called "consensual sex". Is that what you are referring to?
- alex_hitchins 10y ago
  > In Sweden is called "rape" but in the US would be called "consensual sex" If you have sex with someone and tell them you will use a condom and don't, that isn't consensual.
  - grandalf 10y ago
    True, however it is not typically labeled "rape" when the sexual contact aspect is consensual. It seems to constitute some sort of wrongdoing, but potentially also a misunderstanding. In any case, headlines and comments omitting this information and highlighting rape accusations are certainly intended to create a specific impression.
    - alex_hitchins 10y ago
      > It seems to constitute some sort of wrongdoing Saying you are wearing a condom when you aren't is wrongdoing.
      - grandalf 10y ago
        > Saying you are wearing a condom when you aren't is wrongdoing. Of course it is. Assange disputed the accusation and claimed that there was mutual understanding of the status of the condom. In any case, barring an unwanted VD or pregnancy, it seems peculiar to decide to pursue legal action about this a month after the fact. While it's possible that Assange acted boorishly and inappropriately, I think rape is not the right word to describe it. Would a woman who lied about having been on birth control reasonably be said to have raped a male partner?
jshevek 10y ago
Claiming someone is alt-right is starting to have the feel of McCarthy era claims of communism. We are supposed to associate that label (and thus the person) with the deeply unsavory, without looking at their actual, specific positions and actions.
- forgottenpass 10y ago
  Claiming someone is alt-right is starting to have the feel of McCarthy era claims of communism. I don't know what they stand for. But I visit generally progressive-leaning places on the internet and know I'm supposed to hate them. I still haven't even figured out who the "reactionaries" are or what they believe in. I think what happened is some people used the wrong word when talking about "contrarians" and through a game of telephone turned created a new political boogieman. Is the conservative side of the (American) political spectrum really going through this much ideological turmoil and restructuring? I haven't heard about it in any of the mainstream news when I glace at it, nor from the conservatives I talk politics with at work. It looks like a way for the left to shill hate.
  - pessimizer 10y ago
    The alt-right is what happened when 4chan trolls, MRAs/PUAs, and Stormfront had a baby called 8chan.net/pol/ It's a small group of maybe 10,000, of which 5,000 don't even take the positions seriously, just love to troll millennial college "activist" consumer-types. The Clinton speech about the alt-right will have the same effect as Geraldo Rivera's goofy coverage of Neo-nazi skinheads in the 80s - multiplying their numbers a hundred-fold.
    - jshevek 10y ago
      > It's a small group [some of whom] don't even take the positions seriously, just love to troll millennial college "activist" consumer-types. I completely agree that this group exists, that this phenomenon exists. However, it's also apparent from the way many people use the label "alt right", that they are not limiting themselves to describing this group.
    - 10y ago

by amyjess 10y ago

somenomadicguy 10y ago

There might be a much simpler reason for all of this. Being stuck in the embassy for years has severely taxed his emotional stability, encouraging narcissism, paranoia, and victimhood. At the very least, his journalism is sloppy, irresponsible, and ever-decreasing in integrity.

amyjess 10y ago
Both his sexual assaults and his antisemitism predate him running away to the embassy. He ran away to the embassy in 2012 because he refused to take responsibility for his sexual assaults. In 2010 he hired Israel Shamir, an extremely outspoken antisemitic blogger, to help run Wikileaks, and a number of photographs show that they had been close friends for some time before Assange hired him. When he was confronted about this by Private Eye in 2011, he began spouting conspiracy theories about how the Jews were out to get him. Assange is alt-right and has always been.
- somenomadicguy 10y ago
  Assange is absolutely a criminal for breaking the terms of his bail. The sexual assault charges, however, are unproven, and he really deserves his day in court, whether he is guilty or innocent. I hadn't heard the anti-semite bit before, however.
- eggy 10y ago
  Let's separate Julian Assange and content of the leaks please. Ad hominem attacks are only meant to divert people from the content of the emails. Take them for what they are, not who rendered them to the public.
  - amyjess 10y ago
    The content of his leaks is irrelevant. What matters is the intent behind releasing them. Assange being alt-right and the fact that he is going out of his way to leak material that improves the chances of the standard-bearer of the alt-right, Donald Trump, becoming head of state of the most powerful country on Earth are absolutely 100% linked together, and those links should be investigated. Some information should not be public for a reason.
    - jshevek 10y ago
      I would say the exact opposite. Politically motivated speculation about someone's motives are irrelevant, it is the content of the leaks that matter.
      - somenomadicguy 10y ago
        OK then. The AKP leak exposed nothing, but rather added to an incredibly stressful and precarious situation in Türkiye. It carelessly aided in doxing most women in Türkiye. It helped spread malware. It was a good opportunity to co-opt the press around the coup.
        CWuestefeld 10y ago
        The AKP leak exposed nothing You're assuming that the goal is to expose something - that is, you're starting your argument with the idea that he's got some political agenda to achieve. But he's stated that his goal is to weaken the powerful by making it so that they can't trust anyone to keep their secrets. In that context, any uncovering of a leader's secrets is work toward his goal. You can argue that the costs of what he's doing exceed the benefits, but I think your claim doesn't support the argument you're trying to apply it to.
    - eggy 10y ago
      Who decides what information should be public? The alt-right or the alt-left?

grandalf 10y ago

> lack of respect for women Is there any evidence that he lacks respect for women? I have not yet seen any. He was accused of something which in Sweden is called "rape" but in the US would be called "consensual sex". Is that what you are referring to?

alex_hitchins 10y ago
> In Sweden is called "rape" but in the US would be called "consensual sex" If you have sex with someone and tell them you will use a condom and don't, that isn't consensual.
- grandalf 10y ago
  True, however it is not typically labeled "rape" when the sexual contact aspect is consensual. It seems to constitute some sort of wrongdoing, but potentially also a misunderstanding. In any case, headlines and comments omitting this information and highlighting rape accusations are certainly intended to create a specific impression.
  - alex_hitchins 10y ago
    > It seems to constitute some sort of wrongdoing Saying you are wearing a condom when you aren't is wrongdoing.
    - grandalf 10y ago
      > Saying you are wearing a condom when you aren't is wrongdoing. Of course it is. Assange disputed the accusation and claimed that there was mutual understanding of the status of the condom. In any case, barring an unwanted VD or pregnancy, it seems peculiar to decide to pursue legal action about this a month after the fact. While it's possible that Assange acted boorishly and inappropriately, I think rape is not the right word to describe it. Would a woman who lied about having been on birth control reasonably be said to have raped a male partner?

jshevek 10y ago

Claiming someone is alt-right is starting to have the feel of McCarthy era claims of communism. We are supposed to associate that label (and thus the person) with the deeply unsavory, without looking at their actual, specific positions and actions.

forgottenpass 10y ago
Claiming someone is alt-right is starting to have the feel of McCarthy era claims of communism. I don't know what they stand for. But I visit generally progressive-leaning places on the internet and know I'm supposed to hate them. I still haven't even figured out who the "reactionaries" are or what they believe in. I think what happened is some people used the wrong word when talking about "contrarians" and through a game of telephone turned created a new political boogieman. Is the conservative side of the (American) political spectrum really going through this much ideological turmoil and restructuring? I haven't heard about it in any of the mainstream news when I glace at it, nor from the conservatives I talk politics with at work. It looks like a way for the left to shill hate.
- pessimizer 10y ago
  The alt-right is what happened when 4chan trolls, MRAs/PUAs, and Stormfront had a baby called 8chan.net/pol/ It's a small group of maybe 10,000, of which 5,000 don't even take the positions seriously, just love to troll millennial college "activist" consumer-types. The Clinton speech about the alt-right will have the same effect as Geraldo Rivera's goofy coverage of Neo-nazi skinheads in the 80s - multiplying their numbers a hundred-fold.
  - jshevek 10y ago
    > It's a small group [some of whom] don't even take the positions seriously, just love to troll millennial college "activist" consumer-types. I completely agree that this group exists, that this phenomenon exists. However, it's also apparent from the way many people use the label "alt right", that they are not limiting themselves to describing this group.
  - 10y ago