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If you've ever traveled to Japan and stayed with a "Salaryman", it might help explain why some people have trouble "adjusting to work life". This guy I stayed

If you've ever traveled to Japan and stayed with a "Salaryman", it might help explain why some people have trouble "adjusting to work life". This guy I stayed with got about 5, maybe 6 hours sleep a night, worked 12 hour days (at least), and would be required to participate in mandatory social activities, such as attending a hostess bar and drinking. In Europe and Netherlands, this guys work conditions would be considered extreme and in the case of Australia, probably illegal. I'm not saying that there isn't other factors like education and economics at play, but the way I saw pepople living, falling asleep on the train and not getting proper sleep, looked pretty unappealing to me. It doesn't feel like there is anything wrong with these people at all.

a_bonobo 10y ago
I've been reading Zielenziger's Shutting Out The Sun on the hikkikomori phenomenon, and among many depressing story there's one that stuck out: a father, mother and their early 20s hikkikomori son were sharing an apartment, with their son having very little communication with his parents. One day he burst out to his mother: 'Why did you divorce my father?' The mother answered that they did not divorce, it's just that the father leaves for work before the son wakes up and returns from work after the son goes to bed.
- new299 10y ago
  I don't get it. What about weekends. Or the (frequent) national holidays? I've never heard of people in Japan being forced to work regularly on weekends or on national holidays that would be pretty strange in my experience (though long working hours less strange of course).
  - nugget 10y ago
    From what I've seen the long hours can sometimes create an emotional disconnect between the worker and his family, such that even when there is time off, they prefer to spend it separately.
  - nkoren 10y ago
    I lived for several years at an architectural project in Arizona (Arcosanti). At one point, a young Japanese architect came to study there. The first week of the workshop is quite intense, full of academic activities, which she excelled at. On the weekend, the workshoppers rented a van and drove it up to Sedona, where they went hiking. After a few hours on the trail, she suddenly broke down sobbing. Eventually we got the story out of her: between architecture school and a job which began the day after graduation, she'd been working six and a half days per week, without ever taking a holiday or even a sick day, for over five years. This was her first fully free day in all that time. It was evidently completely overwhelming for her, like being released from a long prison sentence. Obviously that's just one data point, and perhaps architecture isn't representative of other professions, but there you go.
    - new299 10y ago
      That's a pretty interesting datapoint though thanks. It's possible I've just not met a wide enough group of people. Think back though, my wife had a friend (engineer) who had been working solidly for 30 days without a break. I guess stretches like that do happen.

a_bonobo 10y ago

I've been reading Zielenziger's Shutting Out The Sun on the hikkikomori phenomenon, and among many depressing story there's one that stuck out: a father, mother and their early 20s hikkikomori son were sharing an apartment, with their son having very little communication with his parents. One day he burst out to his mother: 'Why did you divorce my father?' The mother answered that they did not divorce, it's just that the father leaves for work before the son wakes up and returns from work after the son goes to bed.

new299 10y ago
I don't get it. What about weekends. Or the (frequent) national holidays? I've never heard of people in Japan being forced to work regularly on weekends or on national holidays that would be pretty strange in my experience (though long working hours less strange of course).
- nugget 10y ago
  From what I've seen the long hours can sometimes create an emotional disconnect between the worker and his family, such that even when there is time off, they prefer to spend it separately.
- nkoren 10y ago
  I lived for several years at an architectural project in Arizona (Arcosanti). At one point, a young Japanese architect came to study there. The first week of the workshop is quite intense, full of academic activities, which she excelled at. On the weekend, the workshoppers rented a van and drove it up to Sedona, where they went hiking. After a few hours on the trail, she suddenly broke down sobbing. Eventually we got the story out of her: between architecture school and a job which began the day after graduation, she'd been working six and a half days per week, without ever taking a holiday or even a sick day, for over five years. This was her first fully free day in all that time. It was evidently completely overwhelming for her, like being released from a long prison sentence. Obviously that's just one data point, and perhaps architecture isn't representative of other professions, but there you go.
  - new299 10y ago
    That's a pretty interesting datapoint though thanks. It's possible I've just not met a wide enough group of people. Think back though, my wife had a friend (engineer) who had been working solidly for 30 days without a break. I guess stretches like that do happen.